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#1 KellyStrong

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 01:57 PM

This is something that has always bothered me about this franchise. Our secondary is depleted and instead of signing a FA or two, we'll just sit back and let a QB who just won a SB carve us up on Sunday afternoon. This is why this franchise is in the shape that its in! I understand Marrone having faith in the backups, but come on, he is seriously going to start Justin Rogers, who got torched for over 200 yds, against a Ravens receiving corp that's far better than the Jets receivers. And Aaron Williams?! Wasn't the reason he was moved to Safety because he can't cover ANYBODY?!?!

#2 Bangarang

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 01:58 PM

Please feel free to list some of those FA options that would improve our secondary.

Gilmore should be back in a week or 2 and with him and Leodis, our secondary all of a sudden isn't a major problem.

Edited by Bangarang, 25 September 2013 - 02:01 PM.


#3 kobe808lak

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:00 PM

At this point, I don't think you can just plug and play a guy from off the street into the lineup and expect better than the backups sadly.

What bothers me more is coming into this season, it was widely known there was no depth at that position and any injuries would really screw the team over.. here we are.

I understand not making a huge splash in FA every off season but pick up a Vet or 2 to give yourself a shot at depth and at least be better prepared for these situations which happen EVERY YEAR...

#4 The Big Cat

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:03 PM

View PostBangarang, on 25 September 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Please feel free to list some of those FA options that would improve our secondary.

STEP 3: Profit

View Postkobe808lak, on 25 September 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

At this point, I don't think you can just plug and play a guy from off the street into the lineup and expect better than the backups sadly.

What bothers me more is coming into this season, it was widely known there was no depth at that position and any injuries would really screw the team over.. here we are.

I understand not making a huge splash in FA every off season but pick up a Vet or 2 to give yourself a shot at depth and at least be better prepared for these situations which happen EVERY YEAR...

Right now our team is weathering injuries at:

Safety
Cornerback
Defensive Line
Wide Receiver
Offensive Line

WRT CB: there top TWO receivers are out. Are they expected to carry a third CB who's just as effective?

How many positions do they need to have second and third stringers as good as our starters?

#5 KellyStrong

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:06 PM

View PostBangarang, on 25 September 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Please feel free to list some of those FA options that would improve our secondary.

Gilmore should be back in a week or 2 and with him and Leodis, our secondary all of a sudden isn't a major problem.

Understood. But any CB that gives up 200 yds in a game don't deserve to be in the league at all, that's ridiculous. With all the injuries, any other team woulda brought someone in at least for a workout...ANYBODY!

#6 nucci

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:11 PM

Understand what you're saying but that is what the practice squad is for.

#7 BILLS 4 EVER

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:20 PM

From this recent list, here's the one's who are FAR better than Justin "torch my ass" Rogers.

Bryan Scott  - knows the system, can play safety if Williams needs to move over.


Safety
Kerry Rhodes  
Abram Elam
Charlie Peprah
Amari Spievey (CB)
Chris Hope
Akwasi Owusu-Ansah (CB)

Cornerback
Ronald Bartell
Sheldon Brown
Terrence McGee (KR)
Jason Allen
Cedric Griffin
Nate Clements (FS)
Marcus Trufant
Will Allen
Patrick Lee
Kennard Cox
Brian Witherspoon
Ras-I Dowling

http://thesidelinevi...-agents-defense

#8 distortions

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:33 PM

Half those guys would be better than TMA Rogers.

#9 Gerry

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:52 PM

Agreed-some of these guys have the ability and want to play.  Is money going to be a factor like it probably was with Scott?  Didn't understand letting a guy like that go-flexibility to play LB and safety, knows the defense, good guy in the locker room.  Having him around would make it easy to temporarily switch Williams back to CB.

#10 Cash

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:55 PM

View PostThe Big Cat, on 25 September 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

WRT CB: there top TWO receivers are out. Are they expected to carry a third CB who's just as effective?

How many positions do they need to have second and third stringers as good as our starters?

View PostWild Thing, on 25 September 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Understood. But any CB that gives up 200 yds in a game don't deserve to be in the league at all, that's ridiculous. With all the injuries, any other team woulda brought someone in at least for a workout...ANYBODY!

Would anyone here have been upset or disagreed with Marrone if the Bills had decided to bench Rogers during or after his poor game Sunday?  (Either pull him after any of the passes he gave up Sunday, or announce that he won't start next week, or say nothing, but line up Burton with the 1s at practice instead of Rogers.)  My guess is no.  I do tend to agree that signing a guy off the street probably won't help much, and almost definitely won't help in the short term, but I think I would like to see some repercussions to Rogers for his abysmal game.  Don't cut him or anything, just sit him down to send a clear message that performance matters.  We hear so much rhetoric about competition and every job on the roster being up for grabs, but if a guy can get toasted that bad and keep his job, is there really any competition?

Lastly, a few observations on our CB situation:

-The coaching staff seems to view outside CB and slot/nickel CB as different positions.
-Stephon Gilmore is our #1 outside CB.  Leodis McKelvin is our #2 outside CB.  Both are starters.
-Justin Rogers is our #3 outside CB, and 2nd-string.  If either starter is hurt, Rogers steps into the starting lineup.
-Nickell Robey is our #1 slot CB (he played nickel CB over Ron Brooks in week 1 when both were healthy), but will never play on the outside unless forced to via injury.  He did play some outside last week, I believe.  
-Ron Brooks is our #2 slot CB (got injured playing dime DB, I think) and #4 outside CB.  This is our 3rd-string outside CB -- it takes 2 injuries to get him in the lineup.
-Brandon Burton is our #5 outside CB, and so far has been this coaching staff's answer to Tarvaris Jackson.  I would like to see him take the field at some point, especially since we have THREE injured CBs right now.
-Johnny Adams is also on the team.

Overall, I can't imagine the coaching staff is happy with the depth at CB.  I won't pretend that losing both of your top 2 corners is normal or expected, but a team should be able to lose 1 for at least part of a game without collapsing.  McKelvin's injury last week didn't really affect us at all, because the Jets were going after Rogers on almost every throw.  We don't need 2nd and 3rd stringers to necessarily be as good as the starters, but your top reserve at most positions needs to at least be a competent NFL player.  Rogers was not a competent NFL player last week, and it showed.  I know we have a ton of injuries at CB, but just throwing up your hands and saying we had no chance is oversimplifying things.  If Gilmore and Brooks were both healthy, but McKelvin still got hurt, guess who's playing the rest of the game Sunday?  Justin Rogers, that's who.  It only takes 1 injury to get a terrible player on the field; that's a problem.  If Rogers was in the "Brandon Burton" position and forced into action, I think at that point we throw up our hands and say that we had no chance due to injuries.  But when the first guy off the bench is the one that cost us the game, then there needs to be some pressure on the team to get a better top reserve.

#11 KellyStrong

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:00 PM

View PostCash, on 25 September 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:




Would anyone here have been upset or disagreed with Marrone if the Bills had decided to bench Rogers during or after his poor game Sunday?  (Either pull him after any of the passes he gave up Sunday, or announce that he won't start next week, or say nothing, but line up Burton with the 1s at practice instead of Rogers.)  My guess is no.  I do tend to agree that signing a guy off the street probably won't help much, and almost definitely won't help in the short term, but I think I would like to see some repercussions to Rogers for his abysmal game.  Don't cut him or anything, just sit him down to send a clear message that performance matters.  We hear so much rhetoric about competition and every job on the roster being up for grabs, but if a guy can get toasted that bad and keep his job, is there really any competition?

Lastly, a few observations on our CB situation:

-The coaching staff seems to view outside CB and slot/nickel CB as different positions.
-Stephon Gilmore is our #1 outside CB.  Leodis McKelvin is our #2 outside CB.  Both are starters.
-Justin Rogers is our #3 outside CB, and 2nd-string.  If either starter is hurt, Rogers steps into the starting lineup.
-Nickell Robey is our #1 slot CB (he played nickel CB over Ron Brooks in week 1 when both were healthy), but will never play on the outside unless forced to via injury.  He did play some outside last week, I believe.  
-Ron Brooks is our #2 slot CB (got injured playing dime DB, I think) and #4 outside CB.  This is our 3rd-string outside CB -- it takes 2 injuries to get him in the lineup.
-Brandon Burton is our #5 outside CB, and so far has been this coaching staff's answer to Tarvaris Jackson.  I would like to see him take the field at some point, especially since we have THREE injured CBs right now.
-Johnny Adams is also on the team.

Overall, I can't imagine the coaching staff is happy with the depth at CB.  I won't pretend that losing both of your top 2 corners is normal or expected, but a team should be able to lose 1 for at least part of a game without collapsing.  McKelvin's injury last week didn't really affect us at all, because the Jets were going after Rogers on almost every throw.  We don't need 2nd and 3rd stringers to necessarily be as good as the starters, but your top reserve at most positions needs to at least be a competent NFL player.  Rogers was not a competent NFL player last week, and it showed.  I know we have a ton of injuries at CB, but just throwing up your hands and saying we had no chance is oversimplifying things.  If Gilmore and Brooks were both healthy, but McKelvin still got hurt, guess who's playing the rest of the game Sunday?  Justin Rogers, that's who.  It only takes 1 injury to get a terrible player on the field; that's a problem.  If Rogers was in the "Brandon Burton" position and forced into action, I think at that point we throw up our hands and say that we had no chance due to injuries.  But when the first guy off the bench is the one that cost us the game, then there needs to be some pressure on the team to get a better top reserve.

...and, we have Jacoby Jones and Torry Smith in town this week. Much better receivers than NYJ can field... :/

#12 Dean Cain

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:07 PM

The coaching staff knows that they will be targeting Rogers. Perhaps they want to bait Flacco to target him. I'd expect a lot of safety help over the top of Rogers' half of the field.

#13 The Big Cat

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:13 PM

View PostWild Thing, on 25 September 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

...and, we have Jacoby Jones and Torry Smith in town this week. Much better receivers than NYJ can field... :/

http://twitter.com/b...960235776081920

#14 JPS

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:13 PM

If you put a guy out on an island, give him NO help over the top and get NO pass rush, there's 3 or 4 CBs in the history of the game that would fare well.  I'm not defending Rogers, but my guess is they'll back off with the safeties and give the CBs help this week.  Of course, this puts pressure on the front 7 to stop the run and pick up the TE, but they just can't leave these corners naked again....and they won't.

#15 Bags

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:17 PM

View Postkobe808lak, on 25 September 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

At this point, I don't think you can just plug and play a guy from off the street into the lineup and expect better than the backups sadly.

What bothers me more is coming into this season, it was widely known there was no depth at that position and any injuries would really screw the team over.. here we are.

I understand not making a huge splash in FA every off season but pick up a Vet or 2 to give yourself a shot at depth and at least be better prepared for these situations which happen EVERY YEAR...


I agree, kobe808lak--The Bills "shoulda, coulda, woulda" signed one or two FA DBs during the off-season to give us some depth in case of injuries.  Same holds true for the OG position.  And with $20 million+ under the cap, I wonder about this franchise's commitment to trying to build a winner in WNY.

#16 kobe808lak

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:18 PM

View PostThe Big Cat, on 25 September 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

STEP 3: Profit



Right now our team is weathering injuries at:

Safety
Cornerback
Defensive Line
Wide Receiver
Offensive Line

WRT CB: there top TWO receivers are out. Are they expected to carry a third CB who's just as effective?

How many positions do they need to have second and third stringers as good as our starters?

As good as the starters, probably not likely.. How about NFL caliber at least?  You can't say that there wasn't a CB better than Rogers out there especially before the season..

#17 Meatloaf Sandwich

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:22 PM

Why post this if you have no list of players who are in football shape and capable of learning the defense in less then a weeks time.

#18 JR in Pittsburgh

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:23 PM

View PostJPS, on 25 September 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

If you put a guy out on an island, give him NO help over the top and get NO pass rush, there's 3 or 4 CBs in the history of the game that would fare well.  I'm not defending Rogers, but my guess is they'll back off with the safeties and give the CBs help this week.  Of course, this puts pressure on the front 7 to stop the run and pick up the TE, but they just can't leave these corners naked again....and they won't.

I concur; they're not going to leave Rogers out alone again.

As much as all of us have been ripping Rogers too, he actually had decent coverage on the last bomb to Santonio Holmes (was a beautiful throw), and knocked away another bomb to Hill in the endzone on a really nice play. The guy could be more effective and less of a liability if he had safety help.

#19 Braedenstearns

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:24 PM

View PostThe Big Cat, on 25 September 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:


That's going to help. If we get Byrd back ( probably not) we might just have a chance.

Edited by Braedenstearns, 25 September 2013 - 03:25 PM.


#20 Lt. Dan's Revenge

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:26 PM

View PostWild Thing, on 25 September 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

...and, we have Jacoby Jones and Torry Smith in town this week. Much better receivers than NYJ can field... :/

Jacoby Jones is not playing this week, and he is also not a very good receiver.  He had one miraculously lucky catch in a January game in Denver last year.  Beyond that, he is a great returner and a run of the mill wide receiver.