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Did the ball break the plane on the Marvin Jones "TD"


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#1 Why So Serious?

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

I couldn't believe there wasn't a camera angle across the goal line.

Marvin Jones' feet were in the end zone but the live motion didn't look like the ball was in the end zone. It doesn't matter where his feet are it matters where the ball is. The ball must break the plane of the goalline.

Does anyone have access to the All22 is there an angle that shows the goalline.

Why aren't there 4 cameras that are permanently posted behind each goal-line pylon?

#2 mrags

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:24 AM

If his feet are in the end zone and he is established in the end zone, I believe the ball doesn't have to cross as he has already established himself. The ball only has to cross if he hasn't established himself across the goal line.

However, (and I couldn't tell because of the horrible replays at the stadium) it looked like he may have established himself, but his feet were not in as he caught the ball. I think your have to tip toe the end zone just like your out of bounds in order to keep your position in the end zone. It looked like they were out as he caught the ball.

Just my opinion.

#3 bizell

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:27 AM

i believe you're incorrect, mrags

#4 mrags

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:28 AM

I might be. Not sure how the rules state it tho.

#5 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:32 AM

View Postmrags, on 15 October 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

If his feet are in the end zone and he is established in the end zone, I believe the ball doesn't have to cross as he has already established himself. The ball only has to cross if he hasn't established himself across the goal line.

However, (and I couldn't tell because of the horrible replays at the stadium) it looked like he may have established himself, but his feet were not in as he caught the ball. I think your have to tip toe the end zone just like your out of bounds in order to keep your position in the end zone. It looked like they were out as he caught the ball.

Just my opinion.

Not true. The ball does in fact have to cross the plane of the End Zone to be ruled a TD and it did on that play.

#6 mrags

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 15 October 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:



Not true. The ball does in fact have to cross the plane of the End Zone to be ruled a TD and it did on that play.
k. Ty

#7 NewEra

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:35 AM

View Postmrags, on 15 October 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I might be. Not sure how the rules state it tho.

Ball needs to cross.  I was livid that there was no challenge nor even shown a camera angle that would show if the ball crossed.  Can anyone at the game shed some light on the matter?  The camera views they showed were inconclusive.

#8 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:37 AM

View PostNewEra, on 15 October 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Ball needs to cross.  I was livid that there was no challenge nor even shown a camera angle that would show if the ball crossed.  Can anyone at the game shed some light on the matter?  The camera views they showed were inconclusive.

All scoring plays are automatically reviewed without a team challenging.  The play was reviewed and it was upheld as a TD.

#9 John from Hemet

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:45 AM

Reffing was really bad that day.....the pass interference that was not called was a real game changer.......the wr had the db beat and if he caught that it was either going to be goodwin scoring or very close to the goaline there.......

First he held his arm down they he blantantly got into his body while he was trying to run under the ball....

No call

#10 Why So Serious?

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 15 October 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:



All scoring plays are automatically reviewed without a team challenging.  The play was reviewed and it was upheld as a TD.
That doesn't mean the ball crossed the plane.

Anyone have a access to an all22 screen grab that shows the ball crossing the plane.

#11 mrags

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:03 AM

View PostNewEra, on 15 October 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:



Ball needs to cross.  I was livid that there was no challenge nor even shown a camera angle that would show if the ball crossed.  Can anyone at the game shed some light on the matter?  The camera views they showed were inconclusive.
i was in the end zone where it happened behind the play. To me it looked like the ball was not even close. Like the 1-2 yard line. But that's the down side to my seats. Can't really tell if it crosses when it's that close.

#12 NoSaint

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:04 AM

View PostNewEra, on 15 October 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:



Ball needs to cross.  I was livid that there was no challenge nor even shown a camera angle that would show if the ball crossed.  Can anyone at the game shed some light on the matter?  The camera views they showed were inconclusive.

im surprised sometimes that the nfl doesnt mandate certain camera coverage in its TV contracts - or if it does, not a higher standard. typically not a problem on national games but on regional (ie bills most weeks) it can be REALLY spotty with regards to camera angles.

#13 Boatdrinks

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:08 AM

I thought there was a possibility the ball didn't break the plane due to WR's receiving momentum, but I only saw the TV angle shown on replay. They showed from facing goal line, which was the worst angle possible for this play. If replay had no sideline angle (which would be unbelievable for an NFL game IMO) it would be upheld as replay would be inconclusive and it was called TD on the field. It looked as though officials could have said no TD and let CIN challenge, but what do I know?

#14 NoSaint

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostBoatdrinks, on 15 October 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

I thought there was a possibility the ball didn't break the plane due to WR's receiving momentum, but I only saw the TV angle shown on replay. They showed from facing goal line, which was the worst angle possible for this play. If replay had no sideline angle (which would be unbelievable for an NFL game IMO) it would be upheld as replay would be inconclusive and it was called TD on the field. It looked as though officials could have said no TD and let CIN challenge, but what do I know?

for the lesser games, its really not unheard of to only have a couple cameras that really leave things lacking for replys. its unfortunate and really strange for such a huge industry imo.

#15 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:01 PM

View PostWhy So Serious?, on 15 October 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

That doesn't mean the ball crossed the plane.

Anyone have a access to an all22 screen grab that shows the ball crossing the plane.

I just looked at the play again on the rewind and the all 22.  It was close, but looks like a TD to me because his feet came down in the EZ with the ball already crossed. The official (side judge) immediately ruled it a TD.

Attached Files


Edited by 26CornerBlitz, 15 October 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#16 CodeMonkey

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:08 PM

View PostJohn from Hemet, on 15 October 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Reffing was really bad that day.....the pass interference that was not called was a real game changer.......the wr had the db beat and if he caught that it was either going to be goodwin scoring or very close to the goaline there.......

First he held his arm down they he blantantly got into his body while he was trying to run under the ball....

No call
You are right, the reffing was bad.  But it was bad for both teams.  Taking the red and blue glasses off allows one to see that.

#17 Boatdrinks

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:12 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 15 October 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

I just looked at the play again on the rewind and the all 22.  It was close, but looks like a TD to me because his feet came down in the EZ with the ball already crossed. The official (side judge) immediately ruled it a TD.

Looks like a TD there, if his feet were down in that frame.

View PostCodeMonkey, on 15 October 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

You are right, the reffing was bad.  But it was bad for both teams.  Taking the red and blue glasses off allows one to see that.

Don't recall the volume of calls against CIN being questionable. On the TL hit, he clearly slid and gave himself up. Two CIN defenders made contact. That will generally draw a flag with QB's. Doesn't have to be a big hit, just big enough. The huge volume of non-calls against Bengals was infuriating. Didn't look like Bills got away with much. No R&B glasses.

#18 CodeMonkey

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:14 PM

View PostBoatdrinks, on 15 October 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Don't recall the volume of calls against CIN being questionable. On the TL hit, he clearly slid and gave himself up. Two CIN defenders made contact. That will generally draw a flag with QB's. Doesn't have to be a big hit, just big enough. The huge volume of non-calls against Bengals was infuriating. Didn't look like Bills got away with much. No R&B glasses.
The same claims are made every week here, particularly after a loss but even after a win (albeit fewer).  Do you really believe the Bills could possibly get the short end of the reffing stick every game?

Not singling you out, just making a general comment.

Edited by CodeMonkey, 15 October 2013 - 12:16 PM.


#19 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:14 PM

View PostBoatdrinks, on 15 October 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Looks like a TD there, if his feet were down in that frame.

His feet were definitely down.  I made sure to pause after they touched.

#20 TheMadCap

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

doesent matter. A few years ago, Hines Ward caught a "TD" at the goal line where the ball never got close to the line, but his feet were in, and they counted it...