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Is it too early to give Buddy credit for last draft class?


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#1 tedstrong

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:24 PM

And while we're at it, also for getting Whaley and for stepping down at the right time.  In my opinion, "Well done, Buddy."

#2 r00tabaga

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:33 PM

Well said Ted.  He nailed picks 2-7.  EJ is still unknown.
Anyone know what Chan is doing?  I really hope he gets an OC job again.

#3 Peter

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:42 PM

I like Buddy.  It is a shame we did not hire him as the GM years ago.  I wish him well.  When we have sustained success, he will be one of the reasons for it.

#4 FluffHead

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:44 PM

It's not too early to give him credit, it's too late.  Giving him credit at 8:24 PM?  Buddy's been in bed for an hour by this time of night.

#5 Buftex

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:06 PM

Of course we have no way of really knowing, but is it possible Doug Whaley had a bit of say in this draft?  Is it too early to give him credit for anything?

#6 K-9

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:07 PM

View PostBuftex, on 22 October 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

Of course we have no way of really knowing, but is it possible Doug Whaley had a bit of say in this draft?  Is it too early to give him credit for anything?

Doug Whaley was in the Kirk chair from what I've heard.

GO BILLS!!!

#7 FireChan

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:10 PM

View PostBuftex, on 22 October 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

Of course we have no way of really knowing, but is it possible Doug Whaley had a bit of say in this draft?  Is it too early to give him credit for anything?

I think if Doug had a bit of say in this draft, it's unlikely he hasn't had any say in our previous drafts.

#8 GG

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:20 PM

Did this draft at all resemble the past Buddy drafts?

#9 NoSaint

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:32 PM

View PostGG, on 22 October 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Did this draft at all resemble the past Buddy drafts?

We went and got guys that fit our schemes and coaches needs.... So yea? Lots of experienced battle tested guys with football character. I'd say ej is what buddy described as his prototype.

I think he gives a lot of consideration to his coaches opinions too.

Related - even if Whaley was primary does buddy get any credit for picking him, mentoring him, turning the reigns over and likely still helping?

#10 K-9

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:35 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 22 October 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

We went and got guys that fit our schemes and coaches needs.... So yea? Lots of experienced battle tested guys with football character. I'd say ej is what buddy described as his prototype.

I think he gives a lot of consideration to his coaches opinions too.

Related - even if Whaley was primary does buddy get any credit for picking him, mentoring him, turning the reigns over and likely still helping?

My work here is done.

GO BILLS!!!

#11 NoSaint

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:42 PM

View PostK-9, on 22 October 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:



My work here is done.

GO BILLS!!!

Haha - regardless of kikos baggage off the field all these guys seem to be the definition of hard workers when it comes to their craft. He loves 4 year starters, team captains, etc...

Ej, Gilmore and spiller while obviously different positions seem similar in college résumés and cut from similar cloth


#12 GG

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 22 October 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

We went and got guys that fit our schemes and coaches needs.... So yea? Lots of experienced battle tested guys with football character. I'd say ej is what buddy described as his prototype.

I think he gives a lot of consideration to his coaches opinions too.

Related - even if Whaley was primary does buddy get any credit for picking him, mentoring him, turning the reigns over and likely still helping?

That's a fairly high esteem for a guy that many prospective coaching candidates thought was a joke when he was hired.

Exactly what GM experience did Nix pass down to Whaley, as opposed to Whaley getting it in Pittsburgh from Colbert?

#13 FireChan

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostGG, on 22 October 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

That's a fairly high esteem for a guy that many prospective coaching candidates thought was a joke when he was hired.

Exactly what GM experience did Nix pass down to Whaley, as opposed to Whaley getting it in Pittsburgh from Colbert?

I don't understand why people think Whaley did nothing in the 3 years here was here or that Buddy was garbage.  You don't think Whaley had any say or suggestion in any of the drafts except this one?  Even if he didn't, a lot of Buddy's picks are looking pretty good.  Expert opinions pick the Bills to lose a lot too, do you believe them all the time?

What about Gilmore, Dareus and Aaron Williams?  I doubt Whaley knocked Buddy unconscious to make those picks.  What about guys like Searcy and Brooks who both see the field quite a bit even under this "new" regime?  What about keeping guys like Freddy and SJ13?  Even Spiller, if that's your thing.  Or Cordy Glenn.

Buddy did a lot more with players than most realize, because it is overshadowed by that hindsight horrible QB contract, and tying himself to Chan Gailey, who has little to no success on the defensive side of the ball, and who struggled to hire a competent DC.

Edited by FireChan, 22 October 2013 - 09:34 PM.


#14 BillsVet

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:03 PM

I give Buddy a lot of credit.  In the 3 seasons before becoming GM, Buffalo was 20-28 under HC Dick Jauron and GM's Levy and Brandon.  After Buddy's ascendance to GM, the Bills managed to get worse, going 16-32.  

You really can't make up this level of ineptitude.  Not to mention they had to fire the HC he hired.

#15 NoSaint

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:07 PM

View PostFireChan, on 22 October 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:



I don't understand why people think Whaley did nothing in the 3 years here was here or that Buddy was garbage.  You don't think Whaley had any say or suggestion in any of the drafts except this one?  Even if he didn't, a lot of Buddy's picks are looking pretty good.  Expert opinions pick the Bills to lose a lot too, do you believe them all the time?

What about Gilmore, Dareus and Aaron Williams?  I doubt Whaley knocked Buddy unconscious to make those picks.  What about guys like Searcy and Brooks who both see the field quite a bit even under this "new" regime?  What about keeping guys like Freddy and SJ13?  Even Spiller, if that's your thing.  Or Cordy Glenn.

Buddy did a lot more with players than most realize, because it is overshadowed by that hindsight horrible QB contract, and tying himself to Chan Gailey, who has little to no success on the defensive side of the ball, and who struggled to hire a competent DC.

Even carrington was coming into his own, and this board loves Easley.

Moats as a late rounder has contributed more than most late picks.

The Mario signing. Dareus looks better after a rough year.

He whiffed on some decisions, no doubt, and had some that have over time looked better and better. I don't think he was GREAT but I think he is better than many give credit for.

Edited by NoSaint, 22 October 2013 - 10:08 PM.


#16 TXBILLSFAN

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:17 PM

View Posttedstrong, on 22 October 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

And while we're at it, also for getting Whaley and for stepping down at the right time.  In my opinion, "Well done, Buddy."

Buddy ?  . . . . are you kidding me . . . no way was this his draft -- no way he picks Alonzo or Duke Williams -- this was Whaley's draft from pick 1 through 7 + all the UDFA's --- if you believe anything else you are crazy ---

No different than when Buddy was hired and he pretended it was Modrak picking Spiller --- didn't buy that either --- Buddy was out of the decision making circle in January

Edited by TXBILLSFAN, 22 October 2013 - 10:18 PM.


#17 Buftex

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:20 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 22 October 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

Even carrington was coming into his own, and this board loves Easley.

Moats as a late rounder has contributed more than most late picks.

The Mario signing. Dareus looks better after a rough year.

He whiffed on some decisions, no doubt, and had some that have over time looked better and better. I don't think he was GREAT but I think he is better than many give credit for.

I wasn't trying to dis-credit Buddy Nix, for whatever credit he deserves.  I have just noticed (not necessarily from you) a real reluctance on TBD,  to give Whaley any credit for anything that has gone right this year.

I have no doubt that Buddy and DW both had say in who was drafted... I think both guys experience is more in scouting/personnel than being an administrator.  I have no doubt that both guys have a strong concept of the kind of players they want.  I also think it is very likely that Whaley had a bigger role in this draft than in previous drafts.  It is obvious that Nix's retirement was thought out ahead of time...going into that draft Whaley and Nix knew that it would be DW's team shortly thereafter.  I find it hard to fathom Nix, knowing he is in his final days as GM, would override the wishes of Whaley.

Anyways, I have no doubt, if the season ends with everyone disappointed, Whaley will get all the credit! :lol:

#18 QCity

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:22 PM

View PostTXBILLSFAN, on 22 October 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Buddy ?  . . . . are you kidding me . . . no way was this his draft -- no way he picks Alonzo or Duke Williams -- this was Whaley's draft from pick 1 through 7 + all the UDFA's --- if you believe anything else you are crazy ---

No different than when Buddy was hired and he pretended it was Modrak picking Spiller --- didn't buy that either --- Buddy was out of the decision making circle in January

ROFL here we go!

/popcorn

#19 TXBILLSFAN

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:28 PM

View PostQCity, on 22 October 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:



ROFL here we go!

/popcorn

Marrone said he was told before he was hired that Buddy was out -- so, the GM is on his way out and he's going to make one of the most important decision this franchise has made in the past 10 years, drafting a QB in 1st round ?? --- come on people, it's completely illogical -- Buddy was a LAME DUCK by draft time --- this was Whaley's show

#20 NoSaint

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:37 PM

View PostBuftex, on 22 October 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:



I wasn't trying to dis-credit Buddy Nix, for whatever credit he deserves.  I have just noticed (not necessarily from you) a real reluctance on TBD,  to give Whaley any credit for anything that has gone right this year.

I have no doubt that Buddy and DW both had say in who was drafted... I think both guys experience is more in scouting/personnel than being an administrator.  I have no doubt that both guys have a strong concept of the kind of players they want.  I also think it is very likely that Whaley had a bigger role in this draft than in previous drafts.  It is obvious that Nix's retirement was thought out ahead of time...going into that draft Whaley and Nix knew that it would be DW's team shortly thereafter.  I find it hard to fathom Nix, knowing he is in his final days as GM, would override the wishes of Whaley.

Anyways, I have no doubt, if the season ends with everyone disappointed, Whaley will get all the credit! :lol:

More directed at gg than you. I think Whaley was heavy in the process too. Wasn't meant to discredit his work either.

I think the scouts, coaches, buddy and Whaley all deserve credit for coming together and having a productive room. It's funny I often feel the more vocal half wanted to write buddy out of this season all spring/summer but as guys like AW, Easley, Mario and dareus contribute it's become more accepted that he may have actually created some long term vision and stocked the shelves better than thought.

Think back to his hiring - he knew he needed a qb and talked about the big mobile guy and things like leadership traits and experience; he wanted a dynamic attacking defense, he hired a guy considered an offensive innovator. I think he was comfortable turning the team over cause he saw those cornerstone pieces. I also think he hired Whaley for a shared vision of those things.

Last up I don't think, even if it was buddy's call on the pick, he would have tied Whaley or marrone to EJ and run out of town unless ej was 100% their guy too.

I think this draft was a room full of good football guys that had opportunity meet need/want. I think they all held a lot of shared values and I think it showed in the results. Don't know which picks fall in which guys columns but despite some concerns about the offseason, this is a big place where I think we succeeded hugely.