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Why does Spiller get removed from goal-line situations?


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#1 RuntheDamnBall

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:34 PM

Honest football question here and I'd love to hear some rationale from people who know better.

I understand that the book says that you feed Freddie at the line in a short yardage situation.

But what are you giving up by having a two-back set down there?  Not getting to have TJ Graham on the field?

Please, someone explain to me why Gailey and now Marrone like to take one of our finest weapons off of the field in the red zone.

#2 bills44

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:39 PM

Good question, especially since it's not like we've set the world on fire in goal-to-go situations.  The failure to convert today and against Cinci could turn out to be the difference between playoff contention and looking at the draft order in the last month of the season.

#3 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:41 PM

He's hurt and goal line would just beat him up more. they should put Summers in instead of Graham.

#4 RuntheDamnBall

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:42 PM

View PostBuffalo Barbarian, on 03 November 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

He's hurt and goal line would just beat him up more. they should put Summers in instead of Graham.
I'm not just talking about today; this is an all-season issue.

Regardless, he didn't look too hurt to kick ass on some long runs.  If he's lined up outside or set up to run a screen, is he really going to take that much more punishment?

#5 jboyst62

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:45 PM

He was winded.

Duh.


Sorry, couldn't help it.  Valid question I wondered myself. I do not want to remember what it was but his YPC was amazing today.

#6 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:46 PM

View PostRuntheDamnBall, on 03 November 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

I'm not just talking about today; this is an all-season issue.

Regardless, he didn't look too hurt to kick ass on some long runs.  If he's lined up outside or set up to run a screen, is he really going to take that much more punishment?

He was limping again after a big run.  Fred, Frank and Spiller sounds good to me, Wishbone!

#7 jumbalaya

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:51 PM

He can't break a tackle and he goes down faster than a $50 hooker.

#8 RuntheDamnBall

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:52 PM

View Postjumbalaya, on 03 November 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

He can't break a tackle and he goes down faster than a $50 hooker.
OK.

#9 PO'14

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:54 PM

Fred looked like the 50$ hooker on the goal line today!

#10 NoSaint

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:59 PM

Works best in space, and doesn't take big hits well. In that situation there's no space and lots of big hits. His strengths seem to be between the 20s

#11 RuntheDamnBall

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:07 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 03 November 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Works best in space, and doesn't take big hits well. In that situation there's no space and lots of big hits. His strengths seem to be between the 20s
I understand this, but if he's really only being used on a pass play, is that so much to worry about?

#12 dezertbill

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:08 PM

He's not a goalline back unless you use him as a pass option.  Better off with Jackson, Choice, or Summers.

#13 RuntheDamnBall

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:11 PM

View Postdezertbill, on 03 November 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

He's not a goalline back unless you use him as a pass option.  Better off with Jackson, Choice, or Summers.
I don't disagree, but I think he should be included as a pass option.

Realistically, no options should be off the table, and your best weapons shouldn't be off the table.

"The book" is only getting us so far, IMO.  Good teams are hard to beat because they can kill you in so many ways.  I'd like to see the Bills in that company.

#14 Dean Cain

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:13 PM

Spiller isn't tough enough. He doesn't have the heart.

#15 NoSaint

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostRuntheDamnBall, on 03 November 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:


I don't disagree, but I think he should be included as a pass option.

Realistically, no options should be off the table, and your best weapons shouldn't be off the table.

"The book" is only getting us so far, IMO.  Good teams are hard to beat because they can kill you in so many ways.  I'd like to see the Bills in that company.

In the passing game, where would you rate him knowing screens are limited, and he's likely not in our top 2 route runners outside?

#16 Gerry

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:50 PM

Spiller should not be eliminated from all goal line situations-he is a weapon that needs to be used.  Pitch it out to him to the wide sde of the field-what is the probability that he is going to get into the end zone?  It is a high number.  Same with a QB that can run, especially Thad or even Tuel.  Fake the handoff, roll them out to the wide side and have Chandler run toward the corner of the end zone on that side to keep the D honest.  Peyton can do it  but Thad or Tuel can't?  This is the second time that poor play calling and use of personnel on first and goal have cost the Bills the game, and it is on the coaches.

#17 Bigfatbillsfan

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:05 PM

View PostRuntheDamnBall, on 03 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Honest football question here and I'd love to hear some rationale from people who know better.

I understand that the book says that you feed Freddie at the line in a short yardage situation.

But what are you giving up by having a two-back set down there?  Not getting to have TJ Graham on the field?

Please, someone explain to me why Gailey and now Marrone like to take one of our finest weapons off of the field in the red zone.

Freddy has more power plain and simple.  Spiller is great in open space.  But when you need a power runner you look to Freddy.  Not to mention CJ is a little beat up right now and putting him in at the goal line is a good way to get him hurt worse.

View PostGerry, on 03 November 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Spiller should not be eliminated from all goal line situations-he is a weapon that needs to be used.  Pitch it out to him to the wide sde of the field-what is the probability that he is going to get into the end zone?  It is a high number.  Same with a QB that can run, especially Thad or even Tuel.  Fake the handoff, roll them out to the wide side and have Chandler run toward the corner of the end zone on that side to keep the D honest.  Peyton can do it  but Thad or Tuel can't?  This is the second time that poor play calling and use of personnel on first and goal have cost the Bills the game, and it is on the coaches.

While I still hold to my above post I do agree that Spiller should not be eliminated from any goal line situation.

#18 djp14150

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:10 PM

View PostRuntheDamnBall, on 03 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Honest football question here and I'd love to hear some rationale from people who know better.

I understand that the book says that you feed Freddie at the line in a short yardage situation.

But what are you giving up by having a two-back set down there?  Not getting to have TJ Graham on the field?

Please, someone explain to me why Gailey and now Marrone like to take one of our finest weapons off of the field in the red zone.

Generally they have not put CJ and Freddie on the field at the same time.   I dont understand why that is not done.

Actually Gailey would line both Jackson and Spiller on the same play. Usually one is out wide and the other in the backfield.

CJ is more of a scat back not a power back. He isnt designed to play in the short yardage plays--especially a 3rd and gola on the 1 or 4th and inches.  In short yardage plays you are going against bigger players.

Today he isnt 100% so him getting caught in a pile like this is a risk and he doesnt have the strength given the ankle sprain to do a leap over pile.


If you are talking of having CJ and Freddie in the backfuield in a short yardage play ---who will block for who?   You want the second back a blocking back to lead the way on a designed run.

#19 Bigfatbillsfan

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:12 PM

View Postdjp14150, on 03 November 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

Generally they have not put CJ and Freddie on the field at the same time.   I dont understand why that is not done.

Actually Gailey would line both Jackson and Spiller on the same play. Usually one is out wide and the other in the backfield.

CJ is more of a scat back not a power back. He isnt designed to play in the short yardage plays--especially a 3rd and gola on the 1 or 4th and inches.  In short yardage plays you are going against bigger players.

Today he isnt 100% so him getting caught in a pile like this is a risk and he doesnt have the strength given the ankle sprain to do a leap over pile.


If you are talking of having CJ and Freddie in the backfuield in a short yardage play ---who will block for who?   You want the second back a blocking back to lead the way on a designed run.

I have an answer.  Kiko Alonso.  What the hell, he's a beast everywhere else on the field why not give him the Fullback spot on a 3rd and goal at the 1.  Talk about a player that has heart.

#20 Tcali

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:19 PM

perhaps they could run him wide?? just a thought