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Marone "Babies" EJ


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#1 Wattdogg35

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:59 PM

If you look at the games when EJ was playing, the play calls were run, run, pass.  A article on Buffalobills.com interviewing EJ he said, and i'm paraphrasing, "we have to get our runs on first and second down better, so we are 3rd and 3 instead of 3rd and 9 or 10" right there he was admitting that they just ran the ball on 1st and 2nd.  Hacket did loosen up a very tiny bit in the 4th game or so, but still kept the playcalling very basic and "safe".  all short throws, nothing deep.  Marone defended EJ like crazy, but absolutly no blame on him.  But look at the post game interview when he was talking about Thad, basically threw him under the bus, saying you can't turn it over, he missed a bunch of throws etc.  What they did for Thad is let him "open" up the play book, a lot of down field throws, nice play action, trick plays etc...for tuel as well.  I really beleive they have this "well, Thad's a practice squad QB, so if he plays bad we have that as an excuse" but for EJ, he is their "baby" their "project" that they made a 1st rd pick on, a "reach", so if he plays poorly it looks bad on Marone and whoever else had their say in drafting him.  look at the playcalling from yesterday, not ONE downfield play against the WORST D at giving up 50plus yard plays in the league!  they babied EJ, marone continues to defend him, "he's a rookie, he missed time" blah blah blah....Thad Lewis played 10 times better than him at his worst...put him back in and at least the games were exciting.  I literally FF almost 60% of that game yesterday!  it was just like having Trent Edwards and Dick Jauron back all over again!  makes me sick, looks like EJ is a bust and Marone will be too stuburn to admit, and 4 years from now we will be back in the same "rebuilding" boat!

#2 Charles Romes

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:28 PM

Maybe if EJs first few throws were not 20+ feet off target they would have opened it up a bit more.

#3 Bufcomments

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:30 PM

Well what did you expect??

They had to keep things simple for him in his first game back. And there game plan was to run the ball. And they should have ran it. But they didn't run it well at all and that was a big surprise to me.

But this what you expect from a loser franchise. I thought Thad played better than EJ but they got to give the first rounder a chance to play and see if can do it. It's gonna be like this the rest of the season. Don't forget Payton Manning was 1-15 his first season. Even if EJ loses he gonna play. And we got find out what he has and can he do it on a regular basis.

But I like E J. so far. He was rusty and it showed. He will be alright don't forget he didnt have his fav target Woods out there.

Playcalling was an issue. They have to find ways to give C.J. the ball more, reverses, screens, toss plays I like to see CJ involved much more.

I expect the playbook to open up more at home next week. Part of what you say is true. Yesterday was pitful.

#4 distortions

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:31 PM

Hurry up offense, just look at us! Let's run up the middle boys, run up the middle and we'll throw an incomplete pass.

#5 billsfan714

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:34 PM

Last I looked FJ average 4.5 yards a carry yesterday, against a Steeler team that is traditionally pretty good against the run.

#6 DefenseWinzChampionshipz

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:43 PM

I used to think it was Hackett's play calling until I saw Tuel and Thad play. Those two took shots down field.

EJ is holding himself back is what I've came to realize. Captain checkdown 2.0!

If he doesn't take risks, he's not the answer.

#7 Wattdogg35

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostBufcomments, on 11 November 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Well what did you expect??

They had to keep things simple for him in his first game back. And there game plan was to run the ball. And they should have ran it. But they didn't run it well at all and that was a big surprise to me.

But this what you expect from a loser franchise. I thought Thad played better than EJ but they got to give the first rounder a chance to play and see if can do it. It's gonna be like this the rest of the season. Don't forget Payton Manning was 1-15 his first season. Even if EJ loses he gonna play. And we got find out what he has and can he do it on a regular basis.

But I like E J. so far. He was rusty and it showed. He will be alright don't forget he didnt have his fav target Woods out there.

Playcalling was an issue. They have to find ways to give C.J. the ball more, reverses, screens, toss plays I like to see CJ involved much more.

I expect the playbook to open up more at home next week. Part of what you say is true. Yesterday was pitful.
why do they have to keep things simple? and "short" throws aren't simple.  you can still have guys run downfield and throw it to them...still pretty simple.  they don't want him to have to do any reads, progressions...they didn't keep it simple for Thad. my point is they are babying him way too much.  i agree that he needs to be in there, not too concerned about wins and losses, I was excited about good, tough, competitive play, they beat the cheifs, that was the most impressive i've seen them in a long time, but yesteday was not even close to anything good.  if he made some confident, hard, tough throws, showed any type of poise, anything positive and they lost, so be it. Geno is showing he can get it done, he's had some horrific games as well, but some really good ones too,  EJ has not.  they need to give him a shot and unfortuatley it's not gonna get better this Sunday against the Jets...he will be inconsisitant, hesitant and too quick to checkdown.

#8 Leelee Phoenix

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:49 PM

View PostBufcomments, on 11 November 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Don't forget Payton Manning was 1-15 his first season. Even if EJ loses he gonna play. And we got find out what he has and can he do it on a regular basis
3-13

Peyton led the league in INTs his rookie year, too. Sure didn't shake his confidence.

Comparing EJ to Peyton is silly, but I don't see the point in holding back EJ any.

#9 Rubes

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:56 PM

Hmm, last I read we threw more than 50% of the time on first down in that game.

But yeah, it did seem like either Hackett kept the handcuffs on EJ all day, or EJ just didn't have the confidence to open it up. Not sure which.

And finally, can we just get rid of the !@#$ing fade pass from the one yard line? We don't have the receivers to do that.

#10 Bufcomments

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:58 PM

View PostWattdogg35, on 11 November 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

why do they have to keep things simple? and "short" throws aren't simple.  you can still have guys run downfield and throw it to them...still pretty simple.  they don't want him to have to do any reads, progressions...they didn't keep it simple for Thad. my point is they are babying him way too much.  i agree that he needs to be in there, not too concerned about wins and losses, I was excited about good, tough, competitive play, they beat the cheifs, that was the most impressive i've seen them in a long time, but yesteday was not even close to anything good.  if he made some confident, hard, tough throws, showed any type of poise, anything positive and they lost, so be it. Geno is showing he can get it done, he's had some horrific games as well, but some really good ones too,  EJ has not.  they need to give him a shot and unfortuatley it's not gonna get better this Sunday against the Jets...he will be inconsisitant, hesitant and too quick to checkdown.
dont get me wrong , I agree with you.

Had to be rust because we have seen EJ play better. But that said he has not looked good on the road so far .

EJ was not confident yesterday for some reason. Maybe he was playing not to get hurt. And that will hurt your game more than anything.

Jets have an experienced OC, we don't. That can hurt his game as well.

View PostLeelee Phoenix, on 11 November 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

3-13

Peyton led the league in INTs his rookie year, too. Sure didn't shake his confidence.

Comparing EJ to Peyton is silly, but I don't see the point in holding back EJ any.
opps your right. not comparing EJ to Peyton but just saying his first season was an learning experience as well.

#11 Mark Vader

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:18 PM

Lots of great points made in this thread.

What confuses me is the approach of games to all of our QB's.

When Lewis & Tuel were playing, you got the feeling that the coaches told them to go out and win the game at all costs.

Yesterday with Manuel, it looked like the coaches told him to stay to a specific game plan, do not improvise, and try not to lose.

That's how it looked to me, but I am only guessing.

We need E.J. Manuel to play and learn, that is the only way I see him getting better.

The coaches have got to be more creative on the offensive play calling, and not run a bunch of the same plays over and over.

Edited by Mark Vader, 11 November 2013 - 02:18 PM.


#12 A Dog Named Kelso

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:46 PM

They need to tell him to "take a chance or two.  If you throw an int so be it ... we understand and so will the fans".  He seems to be Risk Averse and that is where "Checkdowns" come from.

Now is the time for him to make mistakes and learn from them not for him to play it safe and never take a risk. I do not believe this is the coaches.   You don't tell your Third and Fourth stringers to take risks and not your number 1.

#13 3rdand12

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:14 PM

View Postcklapka, on 11 November 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

They need to tell him to "take a chance or two.  If you throw an int so be it ... we understand and so will the fans".  He seems to be Risk Averse and that is where "Checkdowns" come from.

Now is the time for him to make mistakes and learn from them not for him to play it safe and never take a risk. I do not believe this is the coaches.   You don't tell your Third and Fourth stringers to take risks and not your number 1.
  That mentality starts against the Jets when we are out of the playoff race ! let it rip , get crazy and have fun.
time to loosen the chinstrap and get weird Nate !
They have absolutely babied EJ.

#14 zow2

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:29 PM

I was giving EJ a pass after the first few weeks.  I was also quick to say that after he got hurt it would not be difficult for Thad/Tuel to maintain EJ's mediocre level of QB play.  Until I see different, I'm sticking to this.  I understand why Marrone is "babying" EJ in pressers.  He wants to keep the kids confidence high.
Bottom line, I get that EJ will be the QB for the final 6 games and I'm ok with it.  Just allow him to start playing some ball and throw downfield...er, EJ has to take some shots when they are called, not check down.

One of the guys on Sirius was saying the Bills offense yesterday was hideous and EJ looked terrible.  He was ripping on them mercilessly.  He needs to throw the ball into some tight coverage downfield.  The good QB's do that.  I don't think it's Hackett, it's EJ.

#15 over 20 years of fanhood

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:33 PM

View PostWattdogg35, on 11 November 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

If you look at the games when EJ was playing, the play calls were run, run, pass.  A article on Buffalobills.com interviewing EJ he said, and i'm paraphrasing, "we have to get our runs on first and second down better, so we are 3rd and 3 instead of 3rd and 9 or 10" right there he was admitting that they just ran the ball on 1st and 2nd.  Hacket did loosen up a very tiny bit in the 4th game or so, but still kept the playcalling very basic and "safe".  all short throws, nothing deep.  Marone defended EJ like crazy, but absolutly no blame on him.  But look at the post game interview when he was talking about Thad, basically threw him under the bus, saying you can't turn it over, he missed a bunch of throws etc.  What they did for Thad is let him "open" up the play book, a lot of down field throws, nice play action, trick plays etc...for tuel as well.  I really beleive they have this "well, Thad's a practice squad QB, so if he plays bad we have that as an excuse" but for EJ, he is their "baby" their "project" that they made a 1st rd pick on, a "reach", so if he plays poorly it looks bad on Marone and whoever else had their say in drafting him.  look at the playcalling from yesterday, not ONE downfield play against the WORST D at giving up 50plus yard plays in the league!  they babied EJ, marone continues to defend him, "he's a rookie, he missed time" blah blah blah....Thad Lewis played 10 times better than him at his worst...put him back in and at least the games were exciting.  I literally FF almost 60% of that game yesterday!  it was just like having Trent Edwards and Dick Jauron back all over again!  makes me sick, looks like EJ is a bust and Marone will be too stuburn to admit, and 4 years from now we will be back in the same "rebuilding" boat!

I don't think they had the kind of weather for trying to hit the deep ball, Pittsburgh didn't fire deep either, but I was very frustrated at the lack of medium range passes although woods seems like the only one that can run those routes anyway.  

This repeated ritual of searching for answers and making excuses on Mondays is so commonplace it would feel strange any other way.

#16 Luxy312

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:35 PM

I don't think that anyone would disagree with the "babied" comments.  Here's the thing and it's pretty simple.  If the coaches didn't want him checking down to Jackson or Chandler on third and long, then those routes would not be run.  That should tell us two things really.  The coaching staff hasn't taken the training wheels off yet.  We don't know the reason.  Maybe he's just not ready to have full command of the offense at this point.  Second and more important though is that Manuel himself by virtue of the fact that he IS checking down clearly isn't comfortable.  When all is said and done, it has to start somewhere.

#17 Nanker

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:38 PM

EJ has regressed this year. The two injuries took the sails out of his wind. See Trent and Fitz post - career-altering-injuries.
He's got time and talent to get his career back on track, but this year so far has been a washout.


#18 GG

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:43 PM

At first I thought that the coaches were holding EJ back, now I'm more convinced that it's self imposed.  Tuel & Lewis threw downfield, EJ not so much after Carolina.  EJ's game has deteriorated since the start.  The checkdowns are not the first option of the play calls.  For whatever reason, EJ has been too timid in his play.  If he's reverting to his college habit of only throwing to open WRs, he's going to struggle and no amount of playcalling change will help that.   He needs to develop more confidence to trust his receivers.  

But the chicken to that egg question is that his accuracy is horrible right now, and he doesn't seem to trust his throws into tighter coverage.

It's not all on Hackett & Marrone.  EJ needs to take his own training wheels off.

#19 mart

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:43 PM

The fade pass on 3rd and 1 into the end zone. EJ said a run was called and he changed

the play.

#20 JR in Pittsburgh

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:47 PM

Check out KC game. We were in 3rd and short all day. This was because we not only ran effectively, but because we had tuel make safe throws on 1st and 2nd down (plus no sacks).