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I'm confused about who drafted this rookie class, help.


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#1 FireChan

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 04:53 PM

When EJ was playing well and our other rookies were clicking (Woods, Kiko, Goodwin)  we were all praising Whaley for what looked like one of the best Bills drafting classes ever.  "This doesn't feel like a Buddy draft" or "You're insane if you think Whaley wasn't calling the shots at the draft table,"  were both posted ad infinium in all of TBD's draft related topics.

However, since EJ has started struggling, I'm now seeing, "Buddy drafted his QB and then left,"  or "Yet another draft mistake by the Buddy era" over and over.

Do we have any info on the driver's seat for the draft?  Or did Buddy just draft our players playing poorly, while all of the good players are Whaley products?

#2 Why So Serious?

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 05:04 PM

The Bills drafted Manuel while Buddy was a figurehead and Whaley was taking over.

It's a perfect move for the organization because if it doesn't work out. "That was Buddy's guy, Whaley will draft his guy."

If it works it out well "Whaley made the move. Buddy was just a figurehead. "



#3 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 05:06 PM

I know that we always like to put it as 1 person but the reality is that every decision that this team has made has been collaborative since the Donahoe era.  Buddy, Whaley, Russ and co., have worked together until they reached consensus. The reality is that there is praise and blame, like always, but it is 100% to be shared.

As an aside, I always chuckle when I hear "what a mess Marv left." He couldn't have had less say in his time. He was GM in name only.

#4 T master

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 05:44 PM

We still need to draft another QB this year, with the talent that this years draft has at the QB position it would be stupid or a typical Bills draft if we didn't .

I just hope Whaley is the guy we think he is & drafts say Boyd or another QB with a better college resume than EJ had . Or even the guy that took EJ's place this year is setting the college land scape on fire with his play .

Other good teams would do it for nothing else to trade that pick at a later date to get either a better QB for their team or a upgrade through trading that pick for another player they may be able to get from another team ...

Edited by T master, 16 November 2013 - 05:45 PM.


#5 Max997

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:01 PM

View PostT master, on 16 November 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

We still need to draft another QB this year, with the talent that this years draft has at the QB position it would be stupid or a typical Bills draft if we didn't .

I just hope Whaley is the guy we think he is & drafts say Boyd or another QB with a better college resume than EJ had . Or even the guy that took EJ's place this year is setting the college land scape on fire with his play .

Other good teams would do it for nothing else to trade that pick at a later date to get either a better QB for their team or a upgrade through trading that pick for another player they may be able to get from another team ...

What other good teams that you refer to or any team would use a first round pick on a QB two years in a row?

#6 Beerball

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:29 PM

View PostFireChan, on 16 November 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

When EJ was playing well and our other rookies were clicking (Woods, Kiko, Goodwin)  we were all praising Whaley for what looked like one of the best Bills drafting classes ever.  "This doesn't feel like a Buddy draft" or "You're insane if you think Whaley wasn't calling the shots at the draft table,"  were both posted ad infinium in all of TBD's draft related topics.

However, since EJ has started struggling, I'm now seeing, "Buddy drafted his QB and then left,"  or "Yet another draft mistake by the Buddy era" over and over.

Do we have any info on the driver's seat for the draft?  Or did Buddy just draft our players playing poorly, while all of the good players are Whaley products?
I definitely don't read every thread. I haven't seen those now putting the onus on Buddy. Got a link to a couple of them?

#7 Kemp2Warlick

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:30 PM

Buddy and Whaley took turns throwing darts at the board.. :w00t:

#8 FireChan

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostBeerball, on 16 November 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

I definitely don't read every thread. I haven't seen those now putting the onus on Buddy. Got a link to a couple of them?
Well I wanted to avoid calling out posters specifically, but you got it.

http://forums.twobil...el/page__st__60

There's one example, I can't remember the other topics I read.  I doubt it's sentiment only expressed in a single topic, however.

There's now talk of EJ being Buddy's "legacy pick"  which I don't understand at all.  I doubt our first rounder was Buddy's and the rest were Whaley's.

#9 Boatdrinks

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:45 PM

View PostWhy So Serious?, on 16 November 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

The Bills drafted Manuel while Buddy was a figurehead and Whaley was taking over.

It's a perfect move for the organization because if it doesn't work out. "That was Buddy's guy, Whaley will draft his guy."

If it works it out well "Whaley made the move. Buddy was just a figurehead. "

                   While it is fact that Nix had been pushed aside to advisory status, there is not much reason to think there is any other motive other than alowing Buddy to save face. This was Whaley's draft through and through. Your conspiracy theory to "excuse" the Manuel pick or any other doesn't hold water. You clearly have an inflated view of your or any other fans viewpoint (or the media for that matter) to the Bills or any NFL organization. They don't have to justify their decisions to you and I doubt they stay up nights wondering how to excuse a pick away if it doesn't pan out. They make decisions to win games so they can keep their very lucrative jobs. They are an insular business that does not really care what you think. Whaley saw something in EJM that made him prefer to draft him over other players. If it doesn't work out, it clearly would put him or any GM on the hotseat, so he has as deep and investment in Manuel's success or failure as EJM himself. The difference being the player usually will be given another shot if they were a high pick. Whaley may not. This is a huge business with millions of dollars at stake. I doubt Doug Whaley thought he would have an easy out by blaming Nix if any of his draft picks didn't pan out. No one on the outside matters as they would not be the ones to dismiss Whaley from his highly paid position if he doesn't turn the team's fortunes around.

View PostMax997, on 16 November 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

What other good teams that you refer to or any team would use a first round pick on a QB two years in a row?
            Excellent point, and one that I have emphasized in other posts. The irrationality on this board is stunning at times. Unless EJM simply digresses from this point on and looks similar to the Steelers/ 1st Jets game in every remaining contest, few NFL types would expect the Bills to draft another QB high in 2014. There is not much precedent for this in past drafts, so it would be something of a shock to NFL draft observers and media types as well.

#10 TXBILLSFAN

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:51 PM

First round QB's are usually organizational picks -- so, in this case, Whaley, Marrone and Brandon, with input from Buddy

Rest of draft was Whaley, with input from Buddy and the scouting department

IN MY OPINION (so I don't offend anyone)




#11 FireChan

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:53 PM

View PostBoatdrinks, on 16 November 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

   While it is fact that Nix had been pushed aside to advisory status, there is not much reason to think there is any other motive other than alowing Buddy to save face. This was Whaley's draft through and through. Your conspiracy theory to "excuse" the Manuel pick or any other doesn't hold water. You clearly have an inflated view of your or any other fans viewpoint (or the media for that matter) to the Bills or any NFL organization. They don't have to justify their decisions to you and I doubt they stay up nights wondering how to excuse a pick away if it doesn't pan out. They make decisions to win games so they can keep their very lucrative jobs. They are an insular business that does not really care what you think. Whaley saw something in EJM that made him prefer to draft him over other players. If it doesn't work out, it clearly would put him or any GM on the hotseat, so he has as deep and investment in Manuel's success or failure as EJM himself. The difference being the player usually will be given another shot if they were a high pick. Whaley may not. This is a huge business with millions of dollars at stake. I doubt Doug Whaley thought he would have an easy out by blaming Nix if any of his draft picks didn't pan out. No one on the outside matters as they would not be the ones to dismiss Whaley from his highly paid position if he doesn't turn the team's fortunes around.


Excellent point, and one that I have emphasized in other posts. The irrationality on this board is stunning at times. Unless EJM simply digresses from this point on and looks similar to the Steelers/ 1st Jets game in every remaining contest, few NFL types would expect the Bills to draft another QB high in 2014. There is not much precedent for this in past drafts, so it would be something of a shock to NFL draft observers and media types as well.

EJ Manuel press conference, November 20th...

EJ:  "I'm really trying my hardest to be the best QB for the Buffalo Bills.  I love it here.  I love the food, I love the beer, I love the snow.  I love pancakes most of all.  That's what I like the most.  But I digress....."

That's when the FO decided to draft a new QB next year.

Edited by FireChan, 16 November 2013 - 06:54 PM.


#12 Boatdrinks

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:01 PM

View PostT master, on 16 November 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

We still need to draft another QB this year, with the talent that this years draft has at the QB position it would be stupid or a typical Bills draft if we didn't .

I just hope Whaley is the guy we think he is & drafts say Boyd or another QB with a better college resume than EJ had . Or even the guy that took EJ's place this year is setting the college land scape on fire with his play .

Other good teams would do it for nothing else to trade that pick at a later date to get either a better QB for their team or a upgrade through trading that pick for another player they may be able to get from another team ...

                           So Whaley will not be the guy Bills fans think he is unless he drafts another QB in 2014 that suits your liking? You may not know, but that " guy that took EJ's place)(Jameis Winston) at FSU is a freshman and won't be in the 2014 NFL draft. Perhaps the Bills may choose to draft him at a later date if EJM doesn't pan out. That is a topic for down the road, as EJ's career is all of 6 games old and he will almost certainly be given 2014 as well before any decision is made on him. The "college landscape" may not be the only thing Winston is setting fire to right now. Winston is currently under investigation for an alleged sexual assault, so his draft/college future is somewhat uncertain as well. The NFL draft board is usually not full of selections made by teams in hopes of using them as bait for trades. Trades are not that common in the NFL and the original team rarely gets value in the event they do trade a player. Teams select players that they believe will help them win football games. NFL history is not exactly full of "good teams" drafting QB's with high picks in consecutive years, either.

#13 Nanker

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:02 PM

The absolute bigotry in Western New York and specifically Buffalo Bills fans when it comes to southerners who have an accent that is different than their own mid-western TWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGG is appalling.
You parochial hicks think the world begins and ends in Erie county are the epitome of snobbery and you should choke on your own vomit.

#14 Boatdrinks

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:05 PM

View PostFireChan, on 16 November 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

EJ Manuel press conference, November 20th...

EJ:  "I'm really trying my hardest to be the best QB for the Buffalo Bills.  I love it here.  I love the food, I love the beer, I love the snow.  I love pancakes most of all.  That's what I like the most.  But I digress....."

That's when the FO decided to draft a new QB next year.

                          Errrr     REGRESS, is what I meant there, but  O.K. then....

#15 KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:15 PM

View PostFireChan, on 16 November 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:



EJ Manuel press conference, November 20th...

EJ:  "I'm really trying my hardest to be the best QB for the Buffalo Bills.  I love it here.  I love the food, I love the beer, I love the snow.  I love pancakes most of all.  That's what I like the most.  But I digress....."

That's when the FO decided to draft a new QB next year.

Is that when the front office decided or you? I can't fault a kid for trying to show the media and fans that he can't be rattled so easily so he makes jokes but maybe you can. Do you honestly think he was being serious?

#16 Kemp2Warlick

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:15 PM

View PostNanker, on 16 November 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

The absolute bigotry in Western New York and specifically Buffalo Bills fans when it comes to southerners who have an accent that is different than their own mid-western TWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGG is appalling.
You parochial hicks think the world begins and ends in Erie county are the epitome of snobbery and you should choke on your own vomit.
....Bigots?  just because some people are irritated by an accent?..I don't think so..I know I'm not a bigot and I have lived here in the south for 15 yrs and some of these country folks accents irritate the hell out me.

#17 FireChan

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostKikoSeeBallKikoGetBall, on 16 November 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:



Is that when the front office decided or you? I can't fault a kid for trying to show the media and fans that he can't be rattled so easily so he makes jokes but maybe you can. Do you honestly think he was being serious?

Uh what? I was making a joke because the other poster said digress instead of regress. Relax.

Edited by FireChan, 16 November 2013 - 07:23 PM.


#18 YoloinOhio

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:00 PM

View PostWhy So Serious?, on 16 November 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

The Bills drafted Manuel while Buddy was a figurehead and Whaley was taking over.

It's a perfect move for the organization because if it doesn't work out. "That was Buddy's guy, Whaley will draft his guy."

If it works it out well "Whaley made the move. Buddy was just a figurehead. "
Is this your opinion or do you have information that this is what happened? It really is kind of farfetched according to how NFL front offices work.

#19 Andre Speed

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:58 PM

View PostYoloInTheBlo, on 16 November 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Is this your opinion or do you have information that this is what happened? It really is kind of farfetched according to how NFL front offices work.
The comment had like ZERO to do with "how front offices work" when selecting players.

It MEANT(i shouldnt have to xplain this really) that the  move could be JUSTIFIED in the future by the marketing people(see Brandon, Russ) no matter what happens.

Make the move, give it your best shot, worry about selling it later.  I am all for that approach.  It's a crapshoot, and they know it.  But the fan will be respected with an explanation at least.  This is how free enterprise in general can work: either they put out what they think is good for them, and @*(# you, or they give it their best try, and appreciate the fact that you have an interest.

Seems like the Bills currently respect the latter, and I feel that's the best they could really do.  (now i'll have a few "whaaat?? responses, but that's just how it goes!)
peace, out.

~AS

#20 Leelee Phoenix

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:05 PM

View PostFireChan, on 16 November 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Well I wanted to avoid calling out posters specifically, but you got it.

http://forums.twobil...el/page__st__60

There's one example, I can't remember the other topics I read.  I doubt it's sentiment only expressed in a single topic, however.

There's now talk of EJ being Buddy's "legacy pick"  which I don't understand at all.  I doubt our first rounder was Buddy's and the rest were Whaley's.
I'm too lazy to find a quote, but I specifically remember him mentioning the QB legacy comment on GR before Manuel was picked and the yahoos bandied about it. And that it ticked me off.

Edited by Leelee Phoenix, 16 November 2013 - 09:05 PM.