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get EJ what he needs to succeed in 2014

EJ Manuel

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#1 BackInDaDay

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 04:44 PM



most of you have probably seen the Gruden camp episode with EJ.  as someone who's rooting hard for this kid to succeed, i'm concerned that his accuracy issues are going to follow him his entire career.  i understand that as he gains experience with NFL defenses he should improve getting the ball to the right spot due to his anticipation of the coverage - but my concern begins at the 17:02 mark. the coach and QB discuss his success at FSU with throwing the ball downfield and allowing his receivers to 'go get it'. EJ acknowledges that his teammates were often the better player on the other end of these, making big plays for them.

right now, our roster doesn't have the type of physically gifted receivers that can 'go get it'. we have a lot of speed - which can get them to an open spot before the D reacts, but EJ hasn't shown the accuracy to consistently make these 'timing' throws. like i said, i'm hoping that in time his recognition of where the D is flowing will help him - but i'm thinking that after x amount of years playing the position, his feel for this hasn't progressed with his other skills. thank goodness he's been patient enough to let the play come to him, or right now he'd be following Geno into JP's "home for emotionally battered quarterbacks".  i give Marrone and Hackett credit there.. trying to give him throws he can make as first reads, and coaching him up to take care of the ball when he thinks he'll be late to his second or third option.  a check down beats a pick - even if it's not gonna sustain a lot of drives.

i'm thinking the best thing the GM and coaches can do for him, is to add at least one deep threat that can come back on the ball and take it from a defender.  Goodwin is a wonderful threat because you can't overthrow him, but we've already seen many under thrown and poorly thrown balls to him, and the other guys.  there aren't many accurate NFL passers with strong arms - usually, you have one or the other.. but when your receivers can make plays, a strong armed guy like EJ has a better chance to succeed.  those deep outs will be put where a play can be made on them after he gets the same confidence in his Bills receivers as he had with his Seminole buddies.

oh yeah, and a big Metzelaars type target wouldn't hurt either, but EJ needs that downfield playmaker more to open things up, and make Ds pay for 1-on-1 coverages on the outside receivers.

#2 Oberyn

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:03 PM

I can only assume you mean bionic knees because seriously, if you blame anything other than his preseason/regular season injuries for his issues than you are a dope.

#3 atlbillsfan1975

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:13 PM

The Bills need to get EJ a pass catching TE coming out of college. FIND the next Gronk or Graham. There have been so many times over this past season that if the Bills had a legit play making TE games could have been different. I like Chandler, but he is what he is. Slow ploder. Who has average hands and fumbles the ball in crucial times.
TE in round one LB or CB in round 2 or OG.
A dynamic TE would also play huge dividends with the rest of the WR's.

#4 JR in Pittsburgh

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:25 PM

IMO, getting "weapons" is very overrated.

All we heard every year about David Carr in Houston is he needed more weapons to be good. Then they got him a star receiver, a great no. 2, a good slot guy, and great TE, etc..... and he still wasn't good.

If EJ is a franchise QB, it shouldn't matter much who is weapons are (to a certain degree).

#5 bisonbrigade

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:41 PM

I agree the Bills need a Great TE. This would give EJ easy completions and would draw safeties away from Goodwin and Graham which would open up the passing game. The offense could also use a guard.

#6 the skycap

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:44 PM

View PostJR in Pittsburgh, on 06 December 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

IMO, getting "weapons" is very overrated.

All we heard every year about David Carr in Houston is he needed more weapons to be good. Then they got him a star receiver, a great no. 2, a good slot guy, and great TE, etc..... and he still wasn't good.

If EJ is a franchise QB, it shouldn't matter much who is weapons are (to a certain degree).

TOUCHE and THANK YOU!!!

Edited by the skycap, 06 December 2013 - 05:45 PM.


#7 Ryan L Billz

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostJR in Pittsburgh, on 06 December 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

IMO, getting "weapons" is very overrated.

All we heard every year about David Carr in Houston is he needed more weapons to be good. Then they got him a star receiver, a great no. 2, a good slot guy, and great TE, etc..... and he still wasn't good.

If EJ is a franchise QB, it shouldn't matter much who is weapons are (to a certain degree).

Tell that to Andrew luck who can't get a 1st down anymore after Reggie Wayne went down.

Weapons do matter.

#8 FeartheLosing

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostJR in Pittsburgh, on 06 December 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

IMO, getting "weapons" is very overrated.

All we heard every year about David Carr in Houston is he needed more weapons to be good. Then they got him a star receiver, a great no. 2, a good slot guy, and great TE, etc..... and he still wasn't good.

If EJ is a franchise QB, it shouldn't matter much who is weapons are (to a certain degree).
How was that O line for Carr, didn't his line lead the NFL is sacks for several years? The Texans did set a single season sack record for 76 times, 68 in his next year. Talk about a decent QB getting beaten down, and being ruined.

#9 bobobonators

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostRyan L Billz, on 06 December 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:



Tell that to Andrew luck who can't get a 1st down anymore after Reggie Wayne went down.

Weapons do matter.

Tom Brady with Gronk is a completely different animal than without.

Weapons certainly matter.

Ryan hasnt looked too hot this season in ATL with all of his WR going down for parts of the season.

Kaep has also had a less than stellar season with all his WR injuries.

Flacco the same without his most reliable WR boldin.

Etc.

All of those situations are complex but weapons matter.  We dont want to be an average offense we want to be elite.  We need dynamic playmakers at multiple positions to get to an elite level.  EJ cant do it in his own, no matter how much he develops

#10 CardinalScotts

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:30 PM

View PostJR in Pittsburgh, on 06 December 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

IMO, getting "weapons" is very overrated.

All we heard every year about David Carr in Houston is he needed more weapons to be good. Then they got him a star receiver, a great no. 2, a good slot guy, and great TE, etc..... and he still wasn't good.

If EJ is a franchise QB, it shouldn't matter much who is weapons are (to a certain degree).

who are you kidding?

#11 3rdand12

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:43 PM

Continue to develop the O line. Being able to trust these guys will allow him to develop his timing with receivers whomever they might be.
Getting a Gronkowski or a Graham is not the magic answer .
Just a solid line and some guys who can run routes and recognise a blitz and break off.
In time Manuel will get comfortable and make the throws .

#12 Dorkington

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:59 PM

A big "go get the ball" WR. And a playmaking TE.

Easy, right?

#13 Section242

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:10 PM

View PostJR in Pittsburgh, on 06 December 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

IMO, getting "weapons" is very overrated.

All we heard every year about David Carr in Houston is he needed more weapons to be good. Then they got him a star receiver, a great no. 2, a good slot guy, and great TE, etc..... and he still wasn't good.

If EJ is a franchise QB, it shouldn't matter much who is weapons are (to a certain degree).

David Carr was horrible. The game was too fast for him. He was Rojo-esque in getting rid of the ball. With that sad he had Johnson who is/was a stud and a washed up Moulds, Gaffney, Kevin Walters, and I think got Daniels his last year in Houston. Maybe i'm forgetting someone but I wouldn't call that great weapons.

#14 NoSaint

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:20 PM

View PostJR in Pittsburgh, on 06 December 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

IMO, getting "weapons" is very overrated.

All we heard every year about David Carr in Houston is he needed more weapons to be good. Then they got him a star receiver, a great no. 2, a good slot guy, and great TE, etc..... and he still wasn't good.

If EJ is a franchise QB, it shouldn't matter much who is weapons are (to a certain degree).

So because David Carr didnt get good with weapons, and Brady plays well without them - we should skip getting them?

#15 billsfan_34

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:20 PM

Woods and Goodwin must be chop liver. We have a nice young crop coming up together. Graham is close to bein real good. We need 3 things on offense, a TE who can run and catch, a stud OG and a between the tackles kick your ass running back in the mold of brandon jacobs. EJ just needs a little more time to develop. Injuries have hampered him but every week I see improvements. The Bills wont be drafting a wide receiver.

#16 jboyst62

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:57 PM

Everyone brings up and has mentioned everything worth mentioning.  In today's NFL you won't have all Superfecta.  To have a Good QB, Good WR/TE, Good RB, and a Good OL is impossible.  Look at all those years in Pittsburgh.  They had good weapons, good QB and a good RB with a bad OL.  Look at NE, Great QB, Underrated OL that was slightly above average, average RB, and good WR/TE's.  (I am stating RB's are average due to Brady being there and offsetting the stacking of the box).

If you don't have a good OL your QB won't have time and your run game won't get established.
If you don't have a good RB your QB will have to carry the offense.
If you don't have a good WR/TE you won't have good targets.
If you don't have a good QB it won't matter about all of the above.

When you don't have a good QB you end up with Fitzpatrick, Alex Smith, or other game managers.

It is not about getting EJ the weapons.  It is about getting the best 11 players on both sides of the ball in some insanely difficult matrix that weighs out salary, experience, opportunity, draft/FA, etc.  The best route to get him weapons and make him better doesn't revolve around getting him targets.  Having a D that gives him better field position can do more then getting him a good #2 TE.  LB Mack, Buffalo coming to this team would do more for EJ then a 3rd rd TE.  Other then OL depth there is no glaring need on this offense.  I have too many questions at TE to label the position anything right now other then need.  RB, also is important to me but can be solved in FA.

#17 Meatloaf Sandwich

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:58 PM

Everyone ready for the official excuse for EJ Manuel next year.

Sophomore Slump

#18 TakeYouToTasker

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 08:19 PM

View Postatlbillsfan1975, on 06 December 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

The Bills need to get EJ a pass catching TE coming out of college. FIND the next Gronk or Graham. There have been so many times over this past season that if the Bills had a legit play making TE games could have been different. I like Chandler, but he is what he is. Slow ploder. Who has average hands and fumbles the ball in crucial times.
TE in round one LB or CB in round 2 or OG.
A dynamic TE would also play huge dividends with the rest of the WR's.
Find the next most dynamic guy to play the position ever?

Really?

#19 bobobonators

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 08:22 PM

View Postjboyst62, on 06 December 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

Everyone brings up and has mentioned everything worth mentioning.  In today's NFL you won't have all Superfecta.  To have a Good QB, Good WR/TE, Good RB, and a Good OL is impossible.  Look at all those years in Pittsburgh.  They had good weapons, good QB and a good RB with a bad OL.  Look at NE, Great QB, Underrated OL that was slightly above average, average RB, and good WR/TE's.  (I am stating RB's are average due to Brady being there and offsetting the stacking of the box).

If you don't have a good OL your QB won't have time and your run game won't get established.
If you don't have a good RB your QB will have to carry the offense.
If you don't have a good WR/TE you won't have good targets.
If you don't have a good QB it won't matter about all of the above.

When you don't have a good QB you end up with Fitzpatrick, Alex Smith, or other game managers.

It is not about getting EJ the weapons.  It is about getting the best 11 players on both sides of the ball in some insanely difficult matrix that weighs out salary, experience, opportunity, draft/FA, etc.  The best route to get him weapons and make him better doesn't revolve around getting him targets.  Having a D that gives him better field position can do more then getting him a good #2 TE.  LB Mack, Buffalo coming to this team would do more for EJ then a 3rd rd TE.  Other then OL depth there is no glaring need on this offense.  I have too many questions at TE to label the position anything right now other then need.  RB, also is important to me but can be solved in FA.

Good post.

While I somewhat agree on the "no glaring need" on offense aspect of your post, that doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be upgraded.  An average offense will most likely not have a glaring need, but there's still a lot of room for growth going from a C to an A.  

The deficiency on this offense for me is clear:  The NFL is a passing league and will continue to evolve into a passing league.  We lack dynamic playmakers in the one area of the game that is most important in today's offensive attacks - the passing game. We have a true explosive playmaker in CJ spiller in the running game, and that's great.  But we need at least 1 CJ Spiller type player in the passing game (either at WR or TE) if we're going to take the next step offensively (IMO).  Maybe Goodwin can evolve into that - we'll see...but this offense is still not set up to truly succeed in the passing game and that's a deficiency in today's NFL.

#20 atlbillsfan1975

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 08:27 PM

View PostTakeYouToTasker, on 06 December 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Find the next most dynamic guy to play the position ever?

Really?
Come on, both those guys are good. Best ever? Not so fast
Graham- 3rd round pick
Gronk- 2nd round pick.

Point is you have to find these guys. Easy? Nope. But the Bills need to address TE once and for all and stop with the cast off's.





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