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cut EJ loose


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#1 BackInDaDay

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:51 PM

this was another week where EJ wasn't under center much - but the way the game deteriorated so quickly, may have played a part in that.  anyway, on the occasion EJ dropped back from center, he was bouncing out of his plant step. this is important because the drop is timed with his first throw option in a play designed by the staff for how they believed the D would defend in a particular position/down/distance situation. bouncing out of that plant step before putting it back down and making the same throw shows the lack of confidence EJ has in committing to the throw.  maybe he's getting caught up in trying to look off a defender, and isn't picking up his #1 in traffic - or maybe he's hesitant because his #1 doesn't yet have the separation he's comfortable with. whatever it is, he has to commit to the throw on these plays. right now, he's executing as if he's very unsure of his ability to complete even medium range passes. he's like a pitcher aiming instead of throwing, and balking men over in a tight inning.  

this advice may fly in the face of trying to protect our franchise QB's health, but if the coaches want to see the guy they drafted - they better let EJ play football.. let him carry the ball in the read option.. roll him out and let him try to make plays downfield - he's not Brees, or Brady, or Manning, but he's a competitor.. cut him loose

#2 FluffHead

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:54 PM

I read the thread title as in release EJ and was in support of it.

#3 NFL95MelGrayDomination

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:56 PM

EJ ran a spread offense at FSU, he threw the ball better with higher completion percentages out of the pocket on designed roll outs than in it. Like Big Ben, I see EJ as the type of QB who can be an effective pocket passer, but it appears his skills and natural athleticism shines when given the ability to be aggressive.

http://espn.go.com/b...-in-first-round

EJ Manuel Since Start of 2010
Passing In & Out of Pocket

In Out << >> Scrambling: 60.0 comp pct (5 TD, 0 Int) Comp pct 66.8 70.3 TD-Int 35-21 10-1 TD pct 5% 14%

#4 DanInUticaTampa

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:00 PM

They really need the oline to protect him better so he can throw it deep more often. That would really him. On one of the sacks, woods would have been wide open deep if they gave him just a half a second longer. There was litterally no one covering him at all. And a better tight end would really help him out. Sucks he looks like a rookie qb, but hopefully he turns into something more. Doesn't help that his 2nd part of the season looks worse than his first half

#5 FluffHead

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:03 PM

View PostNFL95MelGrayDomination, on 08 December 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

EJ ran a spread offense at FSU, he threw the ball better with higher completion percentages out of the pocket on designed roll outs than in it. Like Big Ben, I see EJ as the type of QB who can be an effective pocket passer, but it appears his skills and natural athleticism shines when given the ability to be aggressive.

http://espn.go.com/b...-in-first-round

EJ Manuel Since Start of 2010
Passing In & Out of Pocket

In Out  Scrambling: 60.0 comp pct (5 TD, 0 Int) Comp pct 66.8 70.3 TD-Int 35-21 10-1 TD pct 5% 14%

He certainly didn't run a spread offense in college but whatever.

#6 Max997

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:05 PM

EJ looks like a guy that was just picked up off the street and forced to play

#7 BackInDaDay

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:08 PM

View PostFluffHead, on 08 December 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

I read the thread title as in release EJ and was in support of it.

yikes.. see how that could happen, but i'm not there, yet

#8 BackInDaDay

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:26 PM

they gotta find a way to get him postively involved in the O.  too many negatives lately - incompletions, sacks, picks, drops, flags, etc.. start the next game with a naked bootleg.  break things up. let him play football. let him taste success again.

#9 MoreOffense

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:26 PM

I will be extremely disappointed if ej isn't beat out by someone before week1

#10 BackInDaDay

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:34 PM

View PostDanInUticaTampa, on 08 December 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

They really need the oline to protect him better so he can throw it deep more often. That would really him. On one of the sacks, woods would have been wide open deep if they gave him just a half a second longer. There was litterally no one covering him at all. And a better tight end would really help him out. Sucks he looks like a rookie qb, but hopefully he turns into something more. Doesn't help that his 2nd part of the season looks worse than his first half

can't argue that better protection could help him, but it hasn't been this poor - and it doesn't explain his reluctance to execute a set throw. he's not comfortable with pulling the trigger, and that's a problem. personally, i think he would benefit greatly having a physical 'go to' guy, but for now they have to find a way to get him some success with the team he has.

#11 NFL95MelGrayDomination

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:38 PM

Manuel went from having big WRs in college to little rinky dink Bills WRs & that's a problem.

#12 BackInDaDay

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:40 PM

View PostSameOldBills, on 08 December 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

I will be extremely disappointed if ej isn't beat out by someone before week1

the FO may have too much invested in EJ for this to happen.. but i understand.

View PostNFL95MelGrayDomination, on 08 December 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Manuel went from having big WRs in college to little rinky dink Bills WRs & that's a problem.

i had another post about that, but after seeing his mechanics in today's game, i don't know if he's got the confidence to lay one out for Calvin Johnson

#13 jboyst62

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:41 PM

This team needs to bring Chan Gailey in as OC.  2012 offense+2013 defense. Woo

View Postbirdog1960, on 08 December 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

agree with your points.  heres a few more:
there are at least 10 teams every year that have nearly no chance of making the playoffs starting the first day of training camp.  there are 5-7 or more teams that have little to no chance for the foreseeable future and haven't for years..

the head injury and player safety issues are turning off many folks

the cost of attending games and the value of the game day experience to fans

the ever increasing effect of cheering for the jerseys- teams turning over players quickly with little identity except for the few true franchise players.
this team needs to hire Gailey as OC.

#14 Beerball

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:43 PM

View PostNFL95MelGrayDomination, on 08 December 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

EJ ran a spread offense at FSU, he threw the ball better with higher completion percentages out of the pocket on designed roll outs than in it. Like Big Ben, I see EJ as the type of QB who can be an effective pocket passer, but it appears his skills and natural athleticism shines when given the ability to be aggressive.
His what you term aggression ran him right into several sacks today.

#15 BILLriant

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:48 PM

He needs help....he is developing..he does some good things, he cant overcome the drops, the penalties, he's going to get intercepted because he is a rookie. He doesn't need our so call #1 receiver dropping big plays and having passes that hit him in the hands deflected to the other team. Hacketts refusal to find ways to get the ball to Freddy and CJ his hindering the offense as well.

#16 billsfan714

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:51 PM

EJ rushed for 1.4 yds per carry as a junior and 3.0 yds per carry as a senior at FSU. He's not the athlete people think he is. Remember when you think about those stats consider 5-6 of those games each year were against out matched sacrificial lamb cupcakes playing for the game check and the worst of the ACC.

Edited by billsfan714, 08 December 2013 - 10:53 PM.


#17 BackInDaDay

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:52 PM

View PostBeerball, on 08 December 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

His what you term aggression ran him right into several sacks today.

trying to survive to make a play leads to turnovers and injuries.. going in with a game plan that includes active participation has a better shot at success

#18 Leelee Phoenix

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:58 PM

Running read options with a QB who runs so infrequently is something I can't understand. Defenses don't have to take EJ running seriously.

And like 714 up there said, EJ was not much of a runner at all in college. That was partly due to scheme, but he's never been proven as a natural runner.

Along with EJ's propensity to not throw downfield, and when he does it rarely goes well, where is the upside?

#19 BackInDaDay

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:05 PM

View Postbillsfan714, on 08 December 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

EJ rushed for 1.4 yds per carry as a junior and 3.0 yds per carry as a senior at FSU. He's not the athlete people think he is. Remember when you think about those stats consider 5-6 of those games each year were against out matched sacrificial lamb cupcakes playing for the game check and the worst of the ACC.

see your point, but i don't want them to get EJ involved in the run game for production.. only to get his competitive juices flowing.. he's not much use to this O in his current 'pocket passer' state.  it's back to square one, now..

View PostLeelee Phoenix, on 08 December 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Running read options with a QB who runs so infrequently is something I can't understand. Defenses don't have to take EJ running seriously.

And like 714 up there said, EJ was not much of a runner at all in college. That was partly due to scheme, but he's never been proven as a natural runner.

Along with EJ's propensity to not throw downfield, and when he does it rarely goes well, where is the upside?

he either gets his head cleared, or knocked off

#20 SBUffalo

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:01 AM

View PostNFL95MelGrayDomination, on 08 December 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Manuel went from having big WRs in college to little rinky dink Bills WRs & that's a problem.

Stevie is our tallest WR at 6'2. The tallest wide receiver for the following QBs:

Tom Brady: 6'3. One inch taller. No, you can't factor in Gronk because he's been out all year.
Payton Manning: 6'3. One inch taller.
Cam Newton: 6'2. Same height.
Aaron Rodgers: 6'3. One inch taller.
Drew Brees: 6'4. Two inches taller.
Phillip Rivers: 6'3. One inch taller.


This narrative needs to die. One or two inches isn't going to make the difference between EJ being bad and good. He's also got a 6'7 TE to work with. It's not the height. You could argue it's the skill of the WRs, but drafting a tall WR early or giving him big money because his height isn't a good idea. It's not THAT big of a difference.


Chris Brown@ChrisBrownBills28m

Marrone to scale things back for EJ http://wp.me/plmrg-9l2


Everybody was saying that they wanted to see EJ be better at the end of the year compared to the beginning. That doesn't look like it's going to be the case. Regression for a young QB is an absolute worst-case scenario and signs of what might be to come.

Everybody w