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Comprehensive Bills O line evaluation thread


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#1 OCinBuffalo

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 08:35 PM

Ok...I rarely ask for personal questions to be answered here, but, I think this is helpful for us all.

Can the offensive line experts here(BillinNYC, Dibs, etc.) evaluate each guy we have, in terms of strength, quickness, speed, upper body/lower body, attitude and overall as a player at that position?
Tell us who should stay/go?
And, tell us if they are aware of any FA O lineman that we should be looking at?

(If you need any stats stuff done, just ask me. IF you want our DBs evaluated, I'll do that in return. :D )

The reason I ask is: I believe we need to focus on O line in FA and the Draft....but....I don't know how much. Before we start all of that, it might be nice to have an objective look at exactly where things are.

*(hehehe...I tried to put the word "e v a l" in the thread title...but, since e v a l() is a function in js, and potentially a deadly one, the boad software letter-spaced it. See? It's doing it again! :lol:)

Edited by OCinBuffalo, 05 January 2014 - 08:40 PM.


#2 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 08:40 PM

Cheddar's Dad is also a poster who watches O-line play.

BillsVet is another one who watches line play.

#3 Dibs

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:04 PM

View PostOCinBuffalo, on 05 January 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

....

Can the offensive line experts here(BillinNYC, Dibs, etc.) ....

Lordy no......I'm no expert.  Far from it.  I'm in the same boat as you in seeking the expertise from other posters on this sort of thing.

Good thread though......I too would love to hear a comprehensive breakdown on the OL.  It seems that Pears in particular is being touted as horrible by some & decent-above average by others.  Very confusing to those of us who only typically notice the OLmen when they stuff up.

#4 jboyst62

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:05 PM

I'll work on watching some film in the next couple months and work on this.  I'm getting rewind again in a few weeks and will watch all the games again

#5 Max997

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:07 PM

I'm not going to get into the skill set of each but my personal opinion is the Bills only have two legit starters on the O-line in Glenn and Wood. I've never been big fans of Pears or Urbik and LG is now a disaster

I'm starting to read up on the Offensive Tackles expected to go high in the draft and wouldn't mind seeing the Bills take one to solidify the line

Edited by Max997, 05 January 2014 - 10:10 PM.


#6 jboyst62

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:19 PM

View PostMax997, on 05 January 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

I'm not going to get into the skill set of each but my personal opinion is the Bills only have two legit starters on the O-line in Glenn and Wood. I've never been big fans of Pears or Urbik and LG is now a disaster

I'm starting to read up on the Offensive Tackles expected to go high in the draft and wouldn't mind seeing the Bills take one to solidify the line
upgrading Legursky is obvious.

Pears more then held his own compared to what was thought of him, i'd just as soon look to replace Urbik and keep him as a backup.  I would keep Legursky, too as a backup.  Then again, maybe we do replace Pears and get a T that could, if very necessary, play LT, too.  Pears does not have the skillset to go to the left.

#7 Trader

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:42 PM

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that the Bills go OL heavy in this draft perhaps with the first and third or fourth. If EJ does not make it and I think that he will make it 2015 looks like the prime QB crop not 2014.   It would be nice to have a good OL in place for either Ej or the new guy.

Edited by Trader, 05 January 2014 - 10:57 PM.


#8 Dragonborn10

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:47 PM

My off-season play to address the line

1. If Graham is not tagged pay him 120% of the highest TE contract and bring him in to play TE.  
2. Assuming Graham is tagged, address TE in the draft as no other TE in FA is worth a large contract.
3. Draft an OT in the first round, preferably after trading down.
4. The rookie, Pears, and Hairston compete for the RT spot. Either Pears or Hairston is cut.
5. Sign one mid to high level guard in FA to take the LG spot.  
6. Draft a center in round 4-5.
7. Go to mini-camp with the group we have now plus these additions and start the best two at LG/RG.

That leaves the rest of the draft for LB's, a back-up RB, and another DB.



#9 Green Lightning

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:19 PM

You assume Moeaki is not viable as a starter? I think we need both new guards. Urbik is fine as a backup. Leguski's gotta go. Hopefully Hairston can push Pears to a backup role. All this said, I'd love to hear somebody who really knows what they're talking about to give us a break down as the OP suggested.

#10 Dragonborn10

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:23 PM

View PostGreen Lightning, on 05 January 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

You assume Moeaki is not viable as a starter? I think we need both new guards. Urbik is fine as a backup. Leguski's gotta go. Hopefully Hairston can push Pears to a backup role. All this said, I'd love to hear somebody who really knows what they're talking about to give us a break down as the OP suggested.
Pears' salary is too much for a back-up role.  He starts or he is gone.
Moeaki is viable as a starter.  It is time for Chandler to go.  Probably less than 1% chance they can get Graham.  It will be Moeaki, Gragg, and a rookie in 2014.

#11 Green Lightning

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:30 PM

View PostDragonborn10, on 05 January 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:


Pears' salary is too much for a back-up role.  He starts or he is gone.
Moeaki is viable as a starter.  It is time for Chandler to go.  Probably less than 1% chance they can get Graham.  It will be Moeaki, Gragg, and a rookie in 2014.

Good points. Perhaps Pears would restructure to stay. I think you are right about Chandler being gone.

#12 eSJayDee

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:09 AM

What happened w/ Urbik?  My understanding was that he was very solid/good last yr.  Admittedly, I don't watch line play too intently, but I haven't seen anything (other than Marrone wanting to bench/push him) that makes me think he's sub-std.  Not going to the probowl anytime soon, but IMO worlds above our play at LG.

#13 Big Blitz

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:18 AM

Glenn is really good.  Will become a top 5 LT in the league.

Wood is a great pass pro center.  He can be overpowered at times but not often.  He is a top 5 center in the AFC.

Urbik I'm convinced was hurt the 2nd half of the year.  Very good run blocker but I think he was hindered by a bad knee.

Pears is interesting.  He is a great depth guy but cant be a starter.  If the Bills arent sold on any skill guy at 9 I can see them taking the Tackle from Bama.  He plays RT.  

LG can be addressed via free agency but I think DMs philosophy is to develop.  Which is fine.  So I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted a center and moved him here.

That would be ideal anyway bc I think in losing Levitre the collective IQ of the line and its communication really took a hit.

#14 FeartheLosing

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:36 AM

View PostMax997, on 05 January 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

I'm not going to get into the skill set of each but my personal opinion is the Bills only have two legit starters on the O-line in Glenn and Wood. I've never been big fans of Pears or Urbik and LG is now a disaster

I'm starting to read up on the Offensive Tackles expected to go high in the draft and wouldn't mind seeing the Bills take one to solidify the line
This!

I've been advocating for years to build a better O line. While I'm no football expert by any means, I usually go by what I see in terms of the entire unit, as I'm far to lazy to evaluate each player individually, unless they are particularly good or bad.

Edited by FeartheLosing, 06 January 2014 - 03:06 AM.


#15 Pete

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:03 AM

Cyril Richardson would do wonders for this line

#16 OCinBuffalo

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:22 AM

View PostSan Jose Bills Fan, on 05 January 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

Cheddar's Dad is also a poster who watches O-line play.

BillsVet is another one who watches line play.
Well then. They are signed up. Too bad if they don't like it. PM them, and tell them that their presence is required.

View Postjboyst62, on 05 January 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

I'll work on watching some film in the next couple months and work on this.  I'm getting rewind again in a few weeks and will watch all the games again
Signed up.

View PostMax997, on 05 January 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

I'm not going to get into the skill set of each but my personal opinion is
Not signed up.

If you can't or won't get into the skill set of each...then this thread...is not for you. :lol:

This is the: Comprehensive Bills O Line Evaluation thread.
Not the: Comprehensive College O Line Prospects Evaluation thread.

I appreciate the effort and enthusiasm of looking at the college guys, but, it's just not enough for this thread.

View PostBig Blitz, on 06 January 2014 - 12:18 AM, said:

Glenn is really good.  Will become a top 5 LT in the league.
Wood is a great pass pro center.  He can be overpowered at times but not often.  He is a top 5 center in the AFC.
Urbik I'm convinced was hurt the 2nd half of the year.  Very good run blocker but I think he was hindered by a bad knee.
Pears is interesting.  He is a great depth guy but cant be a starter.  If the Bills arent sold on any skill guy at 9 I can see them taking the Tackle from Bama.  He plays RT.  
LG can be addressed via free agency but I think DMs philosophy is to develop.  Which is fine.  So I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted a center and moved him here.
Signed up...barely.

Need more here. For example: why are you convinced that Urbik was hurt? Why can't Pears be a starter?

View PostPete, on 06 January 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

Cyril Richardson would do wonders for this line
Not signed up.

Throwing names at us, without rationale and/or backed up by stats = FAIL. FAIL will not be tolerated. :lol:

Compliance is mandatory.

Edited by OCinBuffalo, 06 January 2014 - 01:19 AM.


#17 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:31 AM

View PostOCinBuffalo, on 06 January 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

Well then. They are signed up. Too bad if they don't like it. PM them, and tell them that their presence is required.

Done.

#18 Bill from NYC

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:20 AM

View PostOCinBuffalo, on 05 January 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

Ok...I rarely ask for personal questions to be answered here, but, I think this is helpful for us all.

Can the offensive line experts here(BillinNYC, Dibs, etc.) evaluate each guy we have, in terms of strength, quickness, speed, upper body/lower body, attitude and overall as a player at that position?
Tell us who should stay/go?
And, tell us if they are aware of any FA O lineman that we should be looking at?

(If you need any stats stuff done, just ask me. IF you want our DBs evaluated, I'll do that in return. :D )

The reason I ask is: I believe we need to focus on O line in FA and the Draft....but....I don't know how much. Before we start all of that, it might be nice to have an objective look at exactly where things are.

*(hehehe...I tried to put the word "e v a l" in the thread title...but, since e v a l() is a function in js, and potentially a deadly one, the boad software letter-spaced it. See? It's doing it again! :lol:)

Thanks for the kudos but I do not consider myself to be an expert. It is however what I watch. Yesterday, I spent the day watching DJ Fluker lol.
Here's my quick rundown:

1) Glenn is a fine LT.

2)LG? NOT to hijack the thread but Levitre was a perfect fit for this passing league and especially this team with inexperienced qbs. The only college guard I have seen this season is Gabe Jackson and I like him a lot.

3) Wood is a mauler and stayed healthy this season. I'm very glad we kept him.

4) Urbik is a middle of the pack guard. No more no less.

5) Pears is interesting. I have no idea why posters think he is so bad. He is extremely strong and sometimes his movement surprises me. That said, I am not a doctor but I suspect that he is a little beat up. Keep in mind that he is a PURE RT and has no hope of playing the left side. And wrt Hairston, will he even be in the NFL next year? I have no idea what is/was wrong with him but he was a fine backup. Notice the "was" and without him I am seeing zero depth.

Regarding Koundjio from Bama, I remind you once again that in 2012, he was the 4th best blocker on the team. I like him, but #9 seems just a bit early.

In summary the Bills have a dire (self created) need at LG. RT seems less pressing but one injury changes this. Ino, they need to strongly address the OL in the draft. You must be very surprised to read this! :)

PS: If you want to have some fun, focus on big #76 on the Chargers(Fluker), and keep in mind that he is a rookie. But remember, he was drafted unusually early (#11) for a RT. WOW can this kid play!!!!!

#19 GunnerBill

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:16 AM

I am fascinated by offensive line play but very much a novice in terms of analysing it so I will read this thread with interest!

In respect of how the bills improve their line I think they will draft a guy probably look for another in free agency and then they are determined to develop one of the young guys they signed this year.  Marrone was very clear in the season wrap conference that he considers developing an O-lineman a priority for this off-season.

#20 JPS

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:35 AM

I think the O-line is fine and they should draft more WRs and DBs.