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NFL Rules That Are Nothing Short of Contradictory ?


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#1 T master

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:07 AM

I was just watching some recap of the Cinci / San Diego game & Dalton fumbled after running down field & went down and fumbled . Well while watching the Play on the news he was down & slid 2 feet before the ball came out .

I thought the ground couldn't cause a fumble ? Not to mention that his knee , elbow, & pretty much his entire body was on the ground . Yet it was still called a fumble .

Then in the same report Marshawn got fined for NOT talking to the media :huh: I know there is a rule that every player has to talk to the media but to get fined $50K ?? Come on !! Heck i've seen guys get fined less for hitting a guy leading with his helmet !

Then there is the deal of having "control" of the ball all the way through motion of going to the ground, when caught by a WR . But aren't you down when your knee is down ? At least thats what the rule says --- right ?

How many times this year have any of us seen a good catch called a none catch after the guy was on the ground having control while sliding & before they stop bobbling the ball yet still retaining it but how long do you have to have control dang ..

BUT BUT , What happens when the guy is running & puts the ball across the goal line & the ball hits the ground  & it comes out or the player loses control when hitting the ground & the player himself is not down but because the ball breaks the plain of the goal line it's a TD :blink: ??

I don't know but it seems as though the rules comity needs to take a long hard look at some of their rules because they don't make a lot of sense .

Are there any thoughts about some other calls that may have been made in these play offs that are contradictory in what the out come may have been in a game ?

Lastly would any of you know how to get in touch with the NFL to complain about some of these rules they need to change ?

#2 NDBUFFCUSEFAN

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:11 AM

To be down in the NFL you need to be touched by the defense OR slide feet first aka give up if you slide feet first you are down at the beginning of the slide. Since Dalton went head first and was not touched he was not down until a defender touched him, no defender touched him before the ball came out which is why it was ruled a fumble.

#3 T master

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:20 AM

View PostNDBUFFCUSEFAN, on 06 January 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

To be down in the NFL you need to be touched by the defense OR slide feet first aka give up if you slide feet first you are down at the beginning of the slide. Since Dalton went head first and was not touched he was not down until a defender touched him, no defender touched him before the ball came out which is why it was ruled a fumble.

Thank you for that !!! Much appreciated !!

#4 NDBUFFCUSEFAN

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:22 AM

View PostT master, on 06 January 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Thank you for that !!! Much appreciated !!

No problem man, I was unclear on the rule until today as well.

#5 Utah John

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:44 AM

I do agree that the rules about completed passes being ruled incomplete if the receiver doesn't "complete the process" whatever that means, need to be changed.  If the receiver has possession (control of the ball) and takes a couple of steps, that should be a catch.  The Calvin Johnson rule is just crazy.

#6 SBUffalo

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:02 AM

The NFL catch rules are ridiculous. To me, the process should end immediately once you are down by contact or out of bounds.

On this particular play, the player caught the ball, gained possession, took a few steps and stepped out of bounds before falling. He dropped the ball when he tried using the ground as balance. That, to me, is a fumble and not an incomplete pass. Since he was already out of bound there was no fumble.

#7 Pete

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:05 AM

What abouut $50,000 for silence?

#8 CardinalScotts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:40 AM

hold the ball to the ground unless your forward progress has been stopped...meaning your went out of bounds you cannot go any further. Then you dont need to hold onto the ball to the ground...only sometimes depending on who the ref is. NFL has no set rules so every week it's what ever

#9 Pete

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:44 AM

View PostPete, on 06 January 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

What abouut $50,000 for silence?
outrageous, eh?  You must speak to the media or else get fined more then the median salary in the USA.  You can't take the fifth, but don't dare criticize the officials or the league

#10 Dragonborn10

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 03:00 AM

The QB slide feet versus head first is pretty straight forward as noted above.  He slid head first to continue to get yardage until he was touched.  Once you slide feet first the ball is dead even if you slide for twenty feet on a sheet of ice untouched.

The catch stuff is really difficult.  Did anyone see the Ohio State Clemson game?  No way that was a catch by the LB at the end of the game.  He did not complete the catch.  Even dumb ass Matt Millen picked up that one.  The referee consultant said it would not have been overturned after the refs did not give them enough time to review it - but he was protecting his own. And today that was a classic Calvin Johnson rule violation.  Who cares if his forward progress was stopped.  He still needs to complete the catch and he didn't as defined currently.  For the record I disagree with the Calvin Johnson rule but it is the rule and in both of these cases it was not interpreted correctly.

#11 Mark Vader

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 03:21 AM

View PostDStebb716, on 06 January 2014 - 01:02 AM, said:

The NFL catch rules are ridiculous. To me, the process should end immediately once you are down by contact or out of bounds.

On this particular play, the player caught the ball, gained possession, took a few steps and stepped out of bounds before falling. He dropped the ball when he tried using the ground as balance. That, to me, is a fumble and not an incomplete pass. Since he was already out of bound there was no fumble.
Agreed.

I guess that makes too much sense for the NFL.

#12 xsoldier54

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:23 AM

View PostPete, on 06 January 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

What abouut $50,000 for silence?
In Marshawn's case, it is money well spent.  Every time he opens his mouth, he says something stupid.

#13 I_want_2_BILL_Lieve

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:29 AM

Has this been discussed?

During the Cincy - Indy game, just before the half a Cincy WR caught the ball on an out pattern. He was close to out of bounds, and it was hard to tell if he had full control before going out of bounds. Dalton hurried everyone to the line and spiked it to kill the cloak with 2 seconds left. On trots the Cincy kicker, ball is snapped whistle blows… Hold on, the prior play is under review. So no kick.

How can you run a play (the spike play) and then review the play prior to that? I thought once a play is run, there can be no review?

#14 Just in Atlanta

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:27 AM

And if he says something the NFL doesn't like, he'll get fined again.

Goodell is a control freak, and is turning the NFL into a sterile money-grabbing experience.

Agree, the catch rules are insane. I've seen so many awesome catches ruled back due to "not completing the process." Also think pass coverage rules need to be loosened. It's so hard to cover receivers nowadays without being ruled interference. Too many rules are !@#$ing this wonderful game up.

Edited by Just in Atlanta, 06 January 2014 - 06:28 AM.


#15 PolishDave

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:55 AM

View PostPete, on 06 January 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

outrageous, eh?  You must speak to the media or else get fined more then the median salary in the USA.  You can't take the fifth, but don't dare criticize the officials or the league

Hey quick side note....

Remember when Tom Brady and Randy Moss both hid from the media and from the pro bowl after losing the Superbowl to the Giants?   Man that was satisfying.   They thought they were so high and mighty and perfect that they were too embarrassed to even talk about it and give credit where credit was due.   I will forever cherish that memory to remind me of the mental childishness of those two players.

Sorry for the tangent.  I thought other people might like to relive that memory too..

And yes, some NFL rules are very ambiguous.

#16 papazoid

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:02 AM

the worst rule by far....

can't block the punter.......but the punter can make tackles.

#17 HamSandwhich

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:13 AM

View PostI_want_2_BILL_Lieve, on 06 January 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Has this been discussed?

During the Cincy - Indy game, just before the half a Cincy WR caught the ball on an out pattern. He was close to out of bounds, and it was hard to tell if he had full control before going out of bounds. Dalton hurried everyone to the line and spiked it to kill the cloak with 2 seconds left. On trots the Cincy kicker, ball is snapped whistle blows… Hold on, the prior play is under review. So no kick.

How can you run a play (the spike play) and then review the play prior to that? I thought once a play is run, there can be no review?

I thought the same thing and would like to hear an explanation also.  It appears Cin had spiked the ball and people were returning to the huddle afterward when they said the previous play (prior to the spike) is under review.  Whats up with that?

View Postpapazoid, on 06 January 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

the worst rule by far....

can't block the punter.......but the punter can make tackles.

Agreed

#18 NoSaint

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:53 AM

View PostNDBUFFCUSEFAN, on 06 January 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

To be down in the NFL you need to be touched by the defense OR slide feet first aka give up if you slide feet first you are down at the beginning of the slide. Since Dalton went head first and was not touched he was not down until a defender touched him, no defender touched him before the ball came out which is why it was ruled a fumble.

Exactly. Many of the "don't make sense" rules are a product of broadcasters trying to give simple catchy explanations to common plays for viewers but when the more complex situations come up the fans are upset because they don't actually know the rule, just that Troy aikman said something about helmet to helmet hits or the ground not causing a fumble.

View PostHamSandwhich, on 06 January 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:



I thought the same thing and would like to hear an explanation also.  It appears Cin had spiked the ball and people were returning to the huddle afterward when they said the previous play (prior to the spike) is under review.  Whats up with that?


Simple - the play was kicked into the review process and cincy snapped the ball before the refs could announce it to you and I

#19 Beerball

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:09 AM

View PostPete, on 06 January 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

What abouut $50,000 for silence?
Wawrow or another media member can comment, but, I believe that a player needs to be available each week. Lynch didn't speak all season, so he was basically fined 16 times at once.

It's not a big deal & he was expecting the fine.

View PostCardinalScotts, on 06 January 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

hold the ball to the ground unless your forward progress has been stopped...meaning your went out of bounds you cannot go any further. Then you dont need to hold onto the ball to the ground...only sometimes depending on who the ref is. NFL has no set rules so every week it's what ever
That one is crazy. If you carry the ball on a running play and 'break the plane' it's a TD. If you fumble before you hit the ground you didn't really fumble because you crossed the plane. Same thing on a pass play is an incomplete pass? Someone gots some splaining to do.

View PostDragonborn10, on 06 January 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

The QB slide feet versus head first is pretty straight forward as noted above.  He slid head first to continue to get yardage until he was touched.  Once you slide feet first the ball is dead even if you slide for twenty feet on a sheet of ice untouched.

The catch stuff is really difficult.  Did anyone see the Ohio State Clemson game?  No way that was a catch by the LB at the end of the game.  He did not complete the catch.  Even dumb ass Matt Millen picked up that one.  The referee consultant said it would not have been overturned after the refs did not give them enough time to review it - but he was protecting his own. And today that was a classic Calvin Johnson rule violation.  Who cares if his forward progress was stopped.  He still needs to complete the catch and he didn't as defined currently.  For the record I disagree with the Calvin Johnson rule but it is the rule and in both of these cases it was not interpreted correctly.
college don't got same rules, leave that out of the discussion

View PostJust in Atlanta, on 06 January 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Goodell is a control freak, and is turning the NFL into a sterile money-grabbing experience.
That rule has been in place for quite a while (precedes Goodell).

#20 NoSaint

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:14 AM

View PostBeerball, on 06 January 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:


That one is crazy. If you carry the ball on a running play and 'break the plane' it's a TD. If you fumble before you hit the ground you didn't really fumble because you crossed the plane. Same thing on a pass play is an incomplete pass? Someone gots some splaining to do.


the splaination is that they havent even controlled the ball enough by nfl rules to fumble it on the attempted catch. until the catch is completed, how could you fumble or in this case score? on the running play you have established possession and are in the endzone, the play ends. on the receiving play, possession hasnt been established yet.