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9th draft slot puts Bills in action spot


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#1 Pete

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:57 AM

Several QBs are going to be selected before we select and a few great players will slide-possible  Sammy Watkins, Johnny Football. hell maybe even Barr.  What I am hoping is that a player much coveted by another team is available, and we can trade down to the 20s.  Ideally if we had 3-4 late first, second round picks, we could upgrade 3-4 positions right off the bat.  Oline is deep and will be available there.   Cyril Richardson would be a solid addition to our oline.  TE should be available there too.  WR is deep as well.  We are in a good spot and on the cusp of greatness!

#2 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 03:52 AM

View PostPete, on 06 January 2014 - 01:57 AM, said:

Several QBs are going to be selected before we select and a few great players will slide-possible  Sammy Watkins, Johnny Football. hell maybe even Barr.  What I am hoping is that a player much coveted by another team is available, and we can trade down to the 20s.  Ideally if we had 3-4 late first, second round picks, we could upgrade 3-4 positions right off the bat.  Oline is deep and will be available there.   Cyril Richardson would be a solid addition to our oline.  TE should be available there too.  WR is deep as well.  We are in a good spot and on the cusp of greatness!

If Manziel is there and we don't select him, the FO are incompetent fools and should finally be replaced after all these years of underachievement.

Also would not take a guard first round and the WRs maybe deep but an elite WR we have not. The defense is basically fine and only really needs a run stuffing LB. We need offense and lots of it; QB, TE, WR and OL and even an RB to groom if CJ goes and Fred has been injured on and off.

#3 todd

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:15 AM

View PostBuffalo Barbarian, on 06 January 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

If Manziel is there and we don't select him, the FO are incompetent fools and should finally be replaced after all these years of underachievement.


Oh really? If we totally give up on our first round pick last year and draft another QB in the first round the Bills are incompetent fools? So ignoring other positions of need after drafting a QB in the first round last year is actually a GOOD move? Holy crap, that's awesome comedy.

Please explain how 1) You are qualified to call EJ a bust after one year, including your years of scouting and pro football analysis, statistics, and understanding of Buffalo's offense. 2) Why bailing on a first round pick after one year and creating a quarterback controversy helps the team, and 3) Your professional assessment of Manziel's strengths and weaknesses, and how you think his personality will mesh with the Buffalo Bills, how he will overcome his douchebagginess along with his personality defects, massive displays of immaturity, and off the field issues.

I'd love to hear your analysis.

#4 GunnerBill

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:29 AM

Personally I think selecting a Quarterback at #9 would be a bad move considering this team's other needs, but I consider selecting Manziel at 9 would be a total and utter disaster of a move.

Manziel is the divisive player in this draft, a lot of people will think he is the biggest talent in the draft others (myself included) really do not see him as a guy who will make it as an NFL Quarterback.  I think how he interviews at the Combine is going to be telling, because I think at the moment he could go anywhere in the first round.  Interview well and a Quarterback needy team ahead of the Bills at #8 will probably take a swing at him, interview badly and he could even experience a Geno slide that goes on into day 2 because there are already major character concerns.

Personally my preferred option 1 is a trade back to try and pick up at least one more second rounder which would allow us to go O-line, Tight End and Linebacker in the first two rounds and would then give us some freedom to take BPA in the 3rd and 4th (possibly even a Quarterback).

If we have to pick at #9 and can't find a trading partner then I think Mike Evans is a big bodied wide receiver who can make catches when covered.  People will talk abou his lack of elite speed but then Anqan Bolden doesn't have elite speed and it doesn't seem to have done him much harm.

Edited by GunnerBill, 06 January 2014 - 05:32 AM.


#5 finn

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:40 AM

View Posttodd, on 06 January 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Oh really? If we totally give up on our first round pick last year and draft another QB in the first round the Bills are incompetent fools? So ignoring other positions of need after drafting a QB in the first round last year is actually a GOOD move? Holy crap, that's awesome comedy.

Please explain how 1) You are qualified to call EJ a bust after one year, including your years of scouting and pro football analysis, statistics, and understanding of Buffalo's offense. 2) Why bailing on a first round pick after one year and creating a quarterback controversy helps the team, and 3) Your professional assessment of Manziel's strengths and weaknesses, and how you think his personality will mesh with the Buffalo Bills, how he will overcome his douchebagginess along with his personality defects, massive displays of immaturity, and off the field issues.

I'd love to hear your analysis.

Oh, give me a break. This is chat forum, for god's sake, not ESPN. We all need a resume to express an opinion? Or, surprise, do your standards suddenly go sky-high when you disagree with the opinion?

What's more, GunnerBill (make that BuffaloBarbarian) might be right about the Bills needing another quarterback. The list of rationales for poor play ("he just needs more time to develop"; "he needs more weapons"; "his protection was lousy"; "he just needs a quarterback coach") all may have merit, but after 14 years--more like 30--they're getting old. If Manuel turns out to be yet another Losman/Edwards/Johnson/Fitzpatrick, et al., then another three or four years is wasted. Do we really want to be debating quarterback prospects (and never the top ones, never in a top year) in 2018?

I favor drafting Matt Hundley out of UCLA. He was considered a top-ten pick before he was injured, so he would be a good value in the second or third round. Because he needs time to heal, he won't be an immediate threat to Manuel, but if Manuel turns out to be another bust (but a good guy!) or injury prone, then Hundley will be there, all the more ready to play after a year in the system. If Manuel is adequate then we have a Frank Reich in Hundley. Drafting, especially quarterbacks, is not easy. I don't blame the front office as much as many posters here for drafting poor (in hindsight) QBs, but I DO blame them for not drafting more QBs. Is the prospect of a QB controversy so horrendous that it's worth risking another four years of talking draft in December? Is that speedy wide receiver or cornerback so essential that we don't take a flier on a Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick? Manuel may be fine, but he also may suck, and I'd like to see the Bills in the playoffs before I'm a grandfather.

Do I get to say this, Todd? Or should I get 30 years of NFL experience first and get back to you?

Edited by finn, 06 January 2014 - 06:42 AM.


#6 filthymcnasty08

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:58 AM

What Finn said....except my choice of the Hundleys would be  Brett  :)

Never mind.....  http://profootballta...o-stay-at-ucla/

Edited by filthymcnasty08, 06 January 2014 - 07:07 AM.


#7 Nukethis

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:11 AM

I agree with the douchebagginess assessment of Manziel and I also think that finn has a point asking if we all need a resume to post thoughts on here. It seems like theres a misguided snobbiness on TBD and SOME posters think they're "experts" just because of the huge numbers of
posts they have put on the board. Being wrong 15,000 times just makes one an expert douchebag.

Back to the 9th draft slot, why would the Bills draft another qb in the 1st  round when they still don't know if EJ is the man ?
I'd draft Clemson WR Sammy Watkins after watching his 16 catches for 227 yards and 2 td's vs. Ohio St. in the Orange Bowl
or UB lb Kahlil Mack. They're both huge playmakers and what the Bills lack. Just my douchebag opinion.

#8 All_Pro_Bills

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:11 AM

View PostPete, on 06 January 2014 - 01:57 AM, said:

Several QBs are going to be selected before we select and a few great players will slide-possible  Sammy Watkins, Johnny Football. hell maybe even Barr.  What I am hoping is that a player much coveted by another team is available, and we can trade down to the 20s.  Ideally if we had 3-4 late first, second round picks, we could upgrade 3-4 positions right off the bat.  Oline is deep and will be available there.   Cyril Richardson would be a solid addition to our oline.  TE should be available there too.  WR is deep as well.  We are in a good spot and on the cusp of greatness!
The draft class looks to be very deep this year so trading back to collect a few more picks might be a good strategy.  But that might work against finding somebody willing to trade back unless its a team that's in love with a particular player.  Maybe Dallas would jump at the chance to pick Manziel for example, because Jerry likes to make a splash and draw the spotlight (and maybe truly has lost confidence in Romo depite public statements?).  

The decision to accept a trade-back offer might boil down to the difference between selecting one 'game changer' vs. two 'good' players.  Given the Bills have a few holes, but not as many as year past, is this the right approach?  I am not sure.  Lets say Mack is still on the board, which seem unlikely to me right now at #9.  If you can get one guy to potentially set up your defense to be dominant top 5, run and pass, does it make sense to trade back and pick up a guard and tight end on the other side of the ball?

#9 PolishDave

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:28 AM

I'm not really sure what I want the Bills to do at pick 9 right now because I would like to think they will make some moves with veteran personnel between now and then that will probably affect the draft.

I think it also really depends on how high Doug and Doug grade the quarterbacks that are coming up in the draft.   If they are completely sold on a guy and think he might be a one year project instead of a 3 or 4 year project (like EJ) then I can totally see them pulling the trigger on a quarterback.   The goal is to upgrade your talent at every position that is reasonably possible.  So, why in the world would you not want to upgrade at quarterback too?  It seems pretty common sense to me.  If you can upgrade then you upgrade.  Logically, who cares who you drafted where last year?  Why should that change your decision to upgrade or not?

So in my opinion, the thing that really matters is whether Whaley and Marrone both think very highly of any of the quarterbacks coming out this year.  If they do agree and that guy is available, then you take him.   Otherwise I think the trade down strategy to get extra picks is a pretty logical and pretty viable strategy.

#10 tennesseeboy

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:33 AM

I would be surprised to see Manziel make it to nine, and that being the case I see us either going for a great tight end or outside linebacker.  Trading back and getting an extra pick is not a really bad move either.  I don't see the potential for a really bad choice here

#11 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:52 AM

View PostPolishDave, on 06 January 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

I'm not really sure what I want the Bills to do at pick 9 right now

It is a bit early.

The draft is May 8th so we're more than 4 months out yet.

We actually should be more focused on free agency I suppose although I haven't seen anyone post a list of pending free agents yet.

#12 ChanOverChin

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:14 AM

To cut to the chase, what the Bills need most is a difference-maker at QB.........................................if they ever hope to mae the playoffs again.  If you subscribe to that way of thinking then drafting another QB, when there are many more really good ones to choose from this year as opposed to last year certainly deserves some consideration.

Is Manuel going to be a difference-maker in 2014 and beyond??  Nobody knows.  He only played in 10 games.  The best case scenario for us is that he turns into a great player beginning in 2014..  However, his critics would say that he's fragile, indecisive, and checks down more than any other QB in the league.

If I'm Doug and Doug I'm making the decision to go into 2014 with a solid QB situation.  I'm not going to play a game in 2014 with the kind of clustf--- that we had at QB in 2013.  That means I have Manuel/Lewis/Tuel/Dixon, but I need a proven veteran or a high potential rookie QB in the draft.

Johnny Manziel will be discussed ad nauseum prior to the 2014 draft.  Some experts have him being drafted as high as #3 overall.  He is being likened to B. Favre.  Why would you not take a chance on a guy like that given what the Bills have at QB currently and what they have to go up against (i.e. T. Brady) to win the division and finally make it to the playoffs??

FOCUS on the position that will net you the biggest and best results is what I would do.  Maybe make a trade for a proven vet like B. Roethlisberger??  Do something to give your team a chance to f'n compete!!

We have a good defense now with an aggressive scheme to help us to win games.  What we need  more than anything else is a really good QB.

Adding a TE and an OG??   That's f'n bullsh-- man!!  It's that kind of thinking that has put the Bills right where they are now.

#13 BuffaninATL

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:38 AM

View PostChanOverChin, on 06 January 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

To cut to the chase, what the Bills need most is a difference-maker at QB.........................................if they ever hope to mae the playoffs again.  If you subscribe to that way of thinking then drafting another QB, when there are many more really good ones to choose from this year as opposed to last year certainly deserves some consideration.

Is Manuel going to be a difference-maker in 2014 and beyond??  Nobody knows.  He only played in 10 games.  The best case scenario for us is that he turns into a great player beginning in 2014..  However, his critics would say that he's fragile, indecisive, and checks down more than any other QB in the league.

If I'm Doug and Doug I'm making the decision to go into 2014 with a solid QB situation.  I'm not going to play a game in 2014 with the kind of clustf--- that we had at QB in 2013.  That means I have Manuel/Lewis/Tuel/Dixon, but I need a proven veteran or a high potential rookie QB in the draft.

Johnny Manziel will be discussed ad nauseum prior to the 2014 draft.  Some experts have him being drafted as high as #3 overall.  He is being likened to B. Favre.  Why would you not take a chance on a guy like that given what the Bills have at QB currently and what they have to go up against (i.e. T. Brady) to win the division and finally make it to the playoffs??

FOCUS on the position that will net you the biggest and best results is what I would do.  Maybe make a trade for a proven vet like B. Roethlisberger??  Do something to give your team a chance to f'n compete!!

We have a good defense now with an aggressive scheme to help us to win games.  What we need  more than anything else is a really good QB.

Adding a TE and an OG??   That's f'n bullsh-- man!!  It's that kind of thinking that has put the Bills right where they are now.

Hey bro - not necessarily with #9; if you don't think these 2 positions are in need of a significant upgrade, then you don't know what is going on with this team, esp. @ LG, which was a train wreck with Legursky. Chandler is NOT the prototypical 2014 stretch the field TE, either .....

#14 RuntheDamnBall

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:39 AM

View PostBuffalo Barbarian, on 06 January 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

If Manziel is there and we don't select him, the FO are incompetent fools and should finally be replaced after all these years of underachievement.
This is the best case ever made for not selecting Johnny football.

#15 Dorkington

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:01 AM

We're not drafting a QB. We're invested in Manuel for at least another year, but probably two. I'd like to see us trade back, since we probably won't need what the 'best at 9' is. Trade back, fill gaps at G, LB and TE with extra picks hopefully. If Manuel improves, we see the playoffs.

#16 1billsfan

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:22 AM

Why do Bills fans continue to debate about Johnny Manziel possibly falling to the Bills #9 spot? It's an epic fail of a debate because there is literally no chance of that happening. He's going to the Texans at #1 or to the next QB starved team that trades up to the Rams spot at #2. There's basically about 6 teams ahead of the Bills spot that needs a QB like Johnny Manziel. Why in the world is there STILL a debate going on about the Bills having the choice to take Johnny Manziel?

#17 todd

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:25 AM

View Postfinn, on 06 January 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Oh, give me a break. This is chat forum, for god's sake, not ESPN. We all need a resume to express an opinion? Or, surprise, do your standards suddenly go sky-high when you disagree with the opinion?

What's more, GunnerBill (make that BuffaloBarbarian) might be right about the Bills needing another quarterback. The list of rationales for poor play ("he just needs more time to develop"; "he needs more weapons"; "his protection was lousy"; "he just needs a quarterback coach") all may have merit, but after 14 years--more like 30--they're getting old. If Manuel turns out to be yet another Losman/Edwards/Johnson/Fitzpatrick, et al., then another three or four years is wasted. Do we really want to be debating quarterback prospects (and never the top ones, never in a top year) in 2018?

I favor drafting Matt Hundley out of UCLA. He was considered a top-ten pick before he was injured, so he would be a good value in the second or third round. Because he needs time to heal, he won't be an immediate threat to Manuel, but if Manuel turns out to be another bust (but a good guy!) or injury prone, then Hundley will be there, all the more ready to play after a year in the system. If Manuel is adequate then we have a Frank Reich in Hundley. Drafting, especially quarterbacks, is not easy. I don't blame the front office as much as many posters here for drafting poor (in hindsight) QBs, but I DO blame them for not drafting more QBs. Is the prospect of a QB controversy so horrendous that it's worth risking another four years of talking draft in December? Is that speedy wide receiver or cornerback so essential that we don't take a flier on a Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick? Manuel may be fine, but he also may suck, and I'd like to see the Bills in the playoffs before I'm a grandfather.

Do I get to say this, Todd? Or should I get 30 years of NFL experience first and get back to you?

Whaa whaa! Sounds like the real issue here is you disagree with my opinion that it is stupid to draft a QB in the first round again.

#18 bobobonators

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:33 AM

What really gets me about people who argue against drafting a QB in the 1st round again is the following:

That group of people assume that by drafting another QB, we're automatically giving up on EJ.  That's not the case.  We're simply adding talent to a position (which just so happens to be the most important position in the NFL) where we currently lack QUALITY depth.

The beauty is, the new rookie wage scale allows us to draft another QB early without crippling our cap numbers...something that wasn't feasible in the past.  To me, the idea of not drafting QB's early in back to back years is an antiquated one.

I'm not saying we have to draft another QB early, but if we did, I certainly wouldn't go nuts.

Edited by bobobonators, 06 January 2014 - 10:34 AM.


#19 T master

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:34 AM

View Posttodd, on 06 January 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

Oh really? If we totally give up on our first round pick last year and draft another QB in the first round the Bills are incompetent fools? So ignoring other positions of need after drafting a QB in the first round last year is actually a GOOD move? Holy crap, that's awesome comedy.

Please explain how 1) You are qualified to call EJ a bust after one year, including your years of scouting and pro football analysis, statistics, and understanding of Buffalo's offense. 2) Why bailing on a first round pick after one year and creating a quarterback controversy helps the team, and 3) Your professional assessment of Manziel's strengths and weaknesses, and how you think his personality will mesh with the Buffalo Bills, how he will overcome his douchebagginess along with his personality defects, massive displays of immaturity, and off the field issues.

I'd love to hear your analysis.

Personal opinion ... I first hope EJ turns out to be that guy BUT given the class last year & that the Bills took a QB in the first round that every one else thought there was NO first round talent just fits in given the Bills past blunders in the draft .

This year all the so called experts are saying the QB class is stacked with talent & seeing as other really good teams like the Pats draft QB's (just incase) all the time to have a good one there OR use them at some point for trade bait or another draft pick to me isn't a foolish idea .

Of coarse it has to be a really good QB that just falls in our lap & not some one as you said has the red flags the Manziel has to where you may have to wait 4 years like the situation with Jay Cutler until they mature.

I think there will be enough really good talented QB's that slip past the first round that may fall to us that way if you have say a Boyd or McCarron that could fall to the 3rd then why not ? They sit , they learn the offense if EJ gets hurt like this year there is no B**chin that Tuel is there or what ever the guy comes in plays his ass off & the Bills HAVE FOUND THEIR TOM BRADY WIN 4 SUPER BOWLS & ALL IS GOOD IN B/LO !!!

Sorry got carried away --- but you get my point .. dam i need a drink now ...

View Postbobobonators, on 06 January 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

What really gets me about people who argue about drafting a QB in the 1st round again is the following:

That group of people assume that by drafting another QB, we're automatically giving up on EJ.  That's not the case.  We're simply adding talent to a position (which just so happens to be the most important position in the NFL) where we currently lack QUALITY depth.

The beauty is, the new rookie wage scale allows us to draft another QB early without crippling our cap numbers...something that wasn't feasible in the past.  To me, the idea of not drafting QB's early in back to back years is an antiquated one.

YAAA ! Common sense has entered the room people !!! SICK EM !!!

#20 Homey D. Clown

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:42 AM

View PostNukethis, on 06 January 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

I agree with the douchebagginess assessment of Manziel and I also think that finn has a point asking if we all need a resume to post thoughts on here. It seems like theres a misguided snobbiness on TBD and SOME posters think they're "experts" just because of the huge numbers of
posts they have put on the board. Being wrong 15,000 times just makes one an expert douchebag.

Back to the 9th draft slot, why would the Bills draft another qb in the 1st  round when they still don't know if EJ is the man ?
I'd draft Clemson WR Sammy Watkins after watching his 16 catches for 227 yards and 2 td's vs. Ohio St. in the Orange Bowl
or UB lb Kahlil Mack. They're both huge playmakers and what the Bills lack. Just my douchebag opinion.

i enjoyed your usage of the word douchebag very much.