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ProFootballFocus: Bills 2014 Defense Will use Double Slotting:


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#1 Pitta

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:34 PM

https://www.profootb...pitch-scheming/



Analytics! :devil:

Edited by Beerball, 19 March 2014 - 07:30 AM.


#2 jeremy2020

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:37 PM

Definitely an interesting article. The rest of it is interesting too. Thanks for posting it.

#3 jboyst62

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:47 PM

This is not being done just for the Patriots.  Our 2014 schedule will be facing a lot of above average passing teams, or at the least teams that rely on passing game:
Chicago
Detroit
Denver
Houston
Green Bay
San Diego

plus
New York (A) will be looking to add a more versatile running game.

If we did anything to counter the Patriots it was adding Spikes at MLB.  The Patriots beat us by running the ball, not passing.  So far it looks s if we have countered them by them not signing Blount or another big back (I honestly expected them to look at Anthony Dixon, he'd have fit perfect there!).

The Vikings might also go heavily aerial in 2014, but Spikes and Alonso will likely be tested throughout the day.

#4 QCity

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:40 PM

So...a dime package.

#5 Pitta

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:01 PM

View Postjeremy2020, on 18 March 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Definitely an interesting article. The rest of it is interesting too. Thanks for posting it.

You're not welcome.

View PostQCity, on 18 March 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

So...a dime package.

In layman's terms...no.

#6 FireChan

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:02 PM

View PostQCity, on 18 March 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

So...a dime package.

Revolutionary Buffalo Bills defense for 2014. Two safeties and 4 D-linemen!

It was interesting to read that Robey and Graham are great tacklers though. Run support CB's are always good to have.

Edited by FireChan, 18 March 2014 - 05:02 PM.


#7 CardinalScotts

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:34 PM

View PostFireChan, on 18 March 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

Revolutionary Buffalo Bills defense for 2014. Two safeties and 4 D-linemen!

It was interesting to read that Robey and Graham are great tacklers though. Run support CB's are always good to have.
that is a great point and often over looked on great defensive teams...the corners are hitters

#8 mrags

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:34 PM

Nice find. Thanks

#9 vincec

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 06:03 PM

The difference between playing a slot CB like Graham, who plays the run like a safety, and using 3 safeties with someone like Aaron Williams, who used to be a cornerback, covering one of the slot receivers seems academic to me.

It does seem like a way to try and cover for the loss of Byrd to some degree by allowing A Williams to sit back at safety most/all of the time while Graham takes the coverage role.

#10 The Wiz

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 06:44 PM

View Postvincec, on 18 March 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

The difference between playing a slot CB like Graham, who plays the run like a safety, and using 3 safeties with someone like Aaron Williams, who used to be a cornerback, covering one of the slot receivers seems academic to me.

It does seem like a way to try and cover for the loss of Byrd to some degree by allowing A Williams to sit back at safety most/all of the time while Graham takes the coverage role.
Graham will still be in the slot with Gilmore and Mckelvin on the outside. Williams did fine when Byrd didn't want to play so I think it all evens out.  And I'm not saying williams is as good as Byrd.

Edited by The Wiz, 18 March 2014 - 06:45 PM.


#11 3rdand12

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:03 PM

View PostThe Wiz, on 18 March 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

Graham will still be in the slot with Gilmore and Mckelvin on the outside. Williams did fine when Byrd didn't want to play so I think it all evens out.  And I'm not saying williams is as good as Byrd.
I will then .
Great article and we saw it with Pettine when the injury bugs cleared up.

#12 d_wag

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:18 AM

This article is why the bills won't draft high or spend big on another LB. Alonso is the 3 down backer and in today's NFL you only need one. Got to get these extra DBs on the field with so much passing and when they come on the LBs go off. It makes no sense to invest a top pick or a lot of dollars in someone who won't see the field more than 40% of the time.

#13 DefenseWinzChampionshipz

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:36 AM

View PostFireChan, on 18 March 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:



Revolutionary Buffalo Bills defense for 2014. Two safeties and 4 D-linemen!

It was interesting to read that Robey and Graham are great tacklers though. Run support CB's are always good to have.

I don't mind the 4 D-linemen route. I prefer Dareus and Kyle talking to each other on the line with Mario next to Kyle and Hughes/Lawson (I know he's not a DE but I like him there if need be) next to Dareus.

Since Kiko is moving outside and Spikes is holding down the fort at MLB, we clearly need another starting OLB. Bradham isn't looking like he's going to be starter material at this point, so either we plug Lawson in as the other OLB and draft a DE who can rotate with Hughes and Mario, or we can draft a 1st round OLB and start the rookie and have Lawson rotate with Hughes and Mario.

Or we can (and this is my wishful thinking) trade down in the draft and have a late 1st and two 2nd round picks and draft an offensive lineman, OLB and DE with the first three picks (hopefully all potential starters) and not in that order. The rest of the draft can be WR, TE, another O-Lineman, DT/NT to rotate with Dareus/Kyle/Branch and SS (also not in any particular order). That my friend, I believe, will shape us into a decent team until we figure out if EJ is the answer at QB or not.

The reason I want to go 2 defensive players with the 1st three picks is because I believe that with an unstoppable D and an above average Offensive Line, our running game will set the tone and EJ wouldn't have to have more than 21 points on the scoreboard to win a game. Two rushing TDs and a passing TD should be enough to win a game. If you have no faith in EJ, then 2 rushing TDs and 3 Carpenter FGs should do it.

Are people weary of our run game also? Ok fine. With a stout defense, one rushing TD and 4 Carpenter FGs might do the trick also.

Edited by DefenseWinzChampionshipz, 19 March 2014 - 03:45 AM.


#14 vincec

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:37 AM

View Postd_wag, on 19 March 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

This article is why the bills won't draft high or spend big on another LB. Alonso is the 3 down backer and in today's NFL you only need one. Got to get these extra DBs on the field with so much passing and when they come on the LBs go off. It makes no sense to invest a top pick or a lot of dollars in someone who won't see the field more than 40% of the time.
Not if the other linebacker is also a 3 down guy, like Luke Kuechly for example.

#15 Chandler#81

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:05 AM

Good read -and Thread! NE was , well, very NE in how they approached defenses who spread out with 5 & 6 DB's to take away their short passing game. They smashed the soft under belly with a big, bruising RB. Interesting that RB's have fallen so far in the game -both in worth and $$ earnings. They compliment and off set the WR's so well.

The more things change,....

#16 d_wag

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:41 AM

View Postvincec, on 19 March 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Not if the other linebacker is also a 3 down guy, like Luke Kuechly for example.

you can't play two LB's 3 downs, that's the point. if you do that you can't get in to nickel/dime often enough and teams will pick you apart in the passing game. not to mention that buffalo would have just wasted $5M a year on graham because he (or roby) won't see the field often enough to have any impact. it's just not realistic to play 2 LB's 3 downs in today's NFL.  and this is exactly why the bills went with the very affordable rivers in free agency - they didn't want to devote $5M a year to a LB when the CB is the one who is going to see the field more.

just to expand on the point further, what you're looking at in '14 is a snap count breakdown that looks something like this:

WLB - Alonso - 900 snaps (he played too much in '13, 1070 snaps, and wore down)
MLB - Spikes - 500 snaps
SLB - Rivers - 400 snaps

Other (Lawson, Bradham, Powell, late draft pick/depth signing, etc) - 300 snaps.  Note Lawson will see the majority of his snaps at DE.

when looking at the top pick/free agent dollars, i'd much prefer a guy who is going to see the field 80-100% of the time over someone who is looking at 40% of the snaps - and that's a RT or a WR, or even a new starting FS

Edited by d_wag, 19 March 2014 - 05:47 AM.


#17 maryland-bills-fan

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:06 AM

If you look at the FA signings and the signing/qualifying offers for our own players, then several things stand out. Several positions have been reinforced (CB, OG, LB, RB, TE)  and several have not (safety (no Leonard), ROT (no backup for Pears), weak side LB (who is the 3rd down LB behind Alonso?).       I think that there will be a lot of smaller, good coverage linebackers available in the 3rd round and later.  The big program,  +230pound, pass rushing OLB seem to get all the attention in the draft publications, but most people are smaller, so there are a lot of tweener safety-LB players out there playing college ball in smaller schools.  I'm hoping for the Bills to do a trade down in the first round, get a ROT with the lowerer 1st round pick, and then go safety & guard in the second round.   After that, I am expect a "WTF" player in the 3rd or 4th to fill the light LB role.

Edited by maryland-bills-fan, 19 March 2014 - 06:13 AM.


#18 Pitta

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:44 AM

View Postd_wag, on 19 March 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

you can't play two LB's 3 downs, that's the point. if you do that you can't get in to nickel/dime often enough and teams will pick you apart in the passing game. not to mention that buffalo would have just wasted $5M a year on graham because he (or roby) won't see the field often enough to have any impact. it's just not realistic to play 2 LB's 3 downs in today's NFL.  and this is exactly why the bills went with the very affordable rivers in free agency - they didn't want to devote $5M a year to a LB when the CB is the one who is going to see the field more.

just to expand on the point further, what you're looking at in '14 is a snap count breakdown that looks something like this:

WLB - Alonso - 900 snaps (he played too much in '13, 1070 snaps, and wore down)
MLB - Spikes - 500 snaps
SLB - Rivers - 400 snaps

Other (Lawson, Bradham, Powell, late draft pick/depth signing, etc) - 300 snaps.  Note Lawson will see the majority of his snaps at DE.

when looking at the top pick/free agent dollars, i'd much prefer a guy who is going to see the field 80-100% of the time over someone who is looking at 40% of the snaps - and that's a RT or a WR, or even a new starting FS

Great points.

#19 vincec

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:05 PM

View Postd_wag, on 19 March 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

you can't play two LB's 3 downs, that's the point. if you do that you can't get in to nickel/dime often enough and teams will pick you apart in the passing game. not to mention that buffalo would have just wasted $5M a year on graham because he (or roby) won't see the field often enough to have any impact. it's just not realistic to play 2 LB's 3 downs in today's NFL.  and this is exactly why the bills went with the very affordable rivers in free agency - they didn't want to devote $5M a year to a LB when the CB is the one who is going to see the field more.

just to expand on the point further, what you're looking at in '14 is a snap count breakdown that looks something like this:

WLB - Alonso - 900 snaps (he played too much in '13, 1070 snaps, and wore down)
MLB - Spikes - 500 snaps
SLB - Rivers - 400 snaps

Other (Lawson, Bradham, Powell, late draft pick/depth signing, etc) - 300 snaps.  Note Lawson will see the majority of his snaps at DE.

when looking at the top pick/free agent dollars, i'd much prefer a guy who is going to see the field 80-100% of the time over someone who is looking at 40% of the snaps - and that's a RT or a WR, or even a new starting FS
How often did Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs come off the field for Baltimore?  Or Urlacher and Briggs in Chicago?  If you have to play people that are either weak vs the run or the pass then versatile offenses will be able to exploit it.  Also, if you're going to play a 4-3 defense then the MLB is the key position and apparently Alonso is moving to OLB so to have a role player as your MLB doesn't sound too promising.

#20 jboyst62

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:08 AM

View Postvincec, on 19 March 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:


How often did Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs come off the field for Baltimore?  Or Urlacher and Briggs in Chicago?  If you have to play people that are either weak vs the run or the pass then versatile offenses will be able to exploit it.  Also, if you're going to play a 4-3 defense then the MLB is the key position and apparently Alonso is moving to OLB so to have a role player as your MLB doesn't sound too promising.
the bears and ravens are misnomers

The Ravens were vulnerable to the run when Lewis and Suggs were in. Especially towards the end of Lewis' career. To run on them you ran at Lewis or ran the read option.

The Bears defense with Urlacher was 200 years ago and a different league. Urlacher would be a 2 down backer in today's league but still play all 3 downs because he was still better then the next guy.

Urlacher would be an ideal 43Will in today's game under a Pet tine like system where he could contain the run and faced lesser pass coverage. With a solid MLB, Urlacher on the Will and someone like Suggs playing Sam urlacher would thrive.

Our defense will run a lot of nickel and dime but that's not because we do not have talent to run other coverages. Graham in the slot and Robey playing nickel packages takes someone off the field and if I am Swchartz I might look at taking a DL off the field as my only option. And that's not good.