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NO BUYERS REMORSE HERE


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#1 DOGNESS

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 04:22 PM

A few weeks removed from the Sammy Watkins trade and Im loving this deal even more now than when it went down. The reports from the rookie minicamp are very encouraging. I think we are looking at 80 rec for 1200 yards and 10 tds with NFL rookie of the year honors. Think your gonna see alot of four wide looks which should get CJ going again with more space available. Williams, Woods, Watkins, and Goodwin. Thats a major upgrade over last year. Cant wait till september. Yea I know many of you are gonna come at me with the 'EJ' sucks blast. If your gonna bash this thread, be more original than that.

Edited by DOGNESS, 25 May 2014 - 04:23 PM.


#2 3rdand12

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 04:29 PM

Ej sucks .
Ha!!

#3 PO'14

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 04:32 PM

Thad Sucks as well!

#4 chiefbigtalljoe

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 04:35 PM

I have been a fan of Sammy Watkins since his high school days here in Fort Myers, Florida. I was really hoping he would go to FSU, but still followed him at Clemson. He has the "IT" factor, and not in a selfish me, me type of way. His sophomore year was kind of a down year, but overall his results were terrific. I was so happy when they drafted EJ last year, being a fan of FSU. And I was equally ecstatic when they drafted Sammy. Now I know college results don't mean squat in the NFL. But both those kids can be something special.

#5 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 07:24 PM

View PostDOGNESS, on 25 May 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

A few weeks removed from the Sammy Watkins trade and Im loving this deal even more now than when it went down. The reports from the rookie minicamp are very encouraging. I think we are looking at 80 rec for 1200 yards and 10 tds with NFL rookie of the year honors. Think your gonna see alot of four wide looks which should get CJ going again with more space available. Williams, Woods, Watkins, and Goodwin. Thats a major upgrade over last year. Cant wait till september. Yea I know many of you are gonna come at me with the 'EJ' sucks blast. If your gonna bash this thread, be more original than that.
This is how I feel too. Sammy is as talented an offensive player as the Bills have drafted since OJ. Does that mean that he will go to the HOF -no. It just means that his skill set is incredibly well rounded, his production great and his work ethic off the charts. If he puts it all together he can be as special as he should be.

#6 Max997

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 08:40 PM

I don't know who I have more concerns with, EJ or Hackett

I do like Sammy though, still can't believe they moved up like that. As Pepper Brooks would say...I feel Shocked!

Edited by Max997, 25 May 2014 - 08:41 PM.


#7 #34fan

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 01:31 AM

Buyers's remorse?

Dude, We haven't even taken the thing out of the bag yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what I see in Watkins. Still, the thought of an offense that focuses on the availability of just ONE weapon troubles me. For all we know Mike Williams could spend opening day in a jail cell next to Marcel Dareus. Bob Woods, and Goodwin are good, but they're "smallish" wideouts that can be shut down... Where the heck is our big threat guy? Kelvin BenJamin or Martavis Bryan't would have been IDEAL. How can a safety ignore a 6'5" kid with 4.4 speed streaking down the sideline?

A bona fide big-threat receiver would have exponentialized whatever Sammy does this season. IMO, Moreso than Preston Brown or Ross Cockerell.  -Picks that would have likely been UDFA's had we not gotten in the way.

Guess that's "water under the bridge," now as they say. In the end, what I think can save us is a QB (and O.C.) mature enough to recognize and exploit whatever defenses give them.  Nat Hackett has to set aside dreams of being an offensive genius (He isn't one.) and pay attention to what is going on on the field.  That "flea-flicker" he called for Tuel in Cleveland last year was the DUMMEST most tone-deaf, ego-trip I've ever seen.  It pretty much confirmed everything I thought of him as a coach. Crap like that can't happen again.

I don't have buyer's remorse for Sammy, but to those who think he's a cure-all I say "Buyer beware". This kid needs a solid coaching situation in order to be all we know he can be.

#8 FireChan

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 01:36 AM

View Post#34fan, on 26 May 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

Buyers's remorse?

Dude, We haven't even taken the thing out of the bag yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what I see in Watkins. Still, the thought of an offense that focuses on the availability of just ONE weapon troubles me. For all we know Mike Williams could spend opening day in a jail cell next to Marcel Dareus. Bob Woods, and Goodwin are good, but they're "smallish" wideouts that can be shut down... Where the heck is our big threat guy? Kelvin BenJamin or Martavis Bryan't would have been IDEAL. How can a safety ignore a 6'5" kid with 4.4 speed streaking down the sideline?

A bona fide big-threat receiver would have exponentialized whatever Sammy does this season. IMO, Moreso than Preston Brown or Ross Cockerell.  -Picks that would have likely been UDFA's had we not gotten in the way.

Guess that's "water under the bridge," now as they say. In the end, what I think can save us is a QB (and O.C.) mature enough to recognize and exploit whatever defenses give them.  Nat Hackett has to set aside dreams of being an offensive genius (He isn't one.) and pay attention to what is going on on the field.  That "flea-flicker" he called for Tuel in Cleveland last year was the DUMMEST most tone-deaf, ego-trip I've ever seen.  It pretty much confirmed everything I thought of him as a coach. Crap like that can't happen again.

I don't have buyer's remorse for Sammy, but to those who think he's a cure-all I say "Buyer beware". This kid needs a solid coaching situation in order to be all we know he can be.

It's funny how different two people can see the same play and derive totally different opinions. I loved that flea flicker call. We had an UDFA QB who got sent out to win the game. Time to call some non-standard plays, we aren't winning that game calling for Jeff to throw perfectly timed slants to players he had never thrown to before.

Did it work? Obviously not. But if there's ever a time to pull out all the tricks in your playbook, it was then.

Also, don't you think it's a little unfair to write off our big and proven WR, just to complain about not having a big WR? Might as well say, "Cyrus and Cyril could both blow out there knees, I can't believe we didn't upgrade the O-line!!"

Edited by FireChan, 26 May 2014 - 01:38 AM.


#9 #34fan

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 02:26 AM

View PostFireChan, on 26 May 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

It's funny how different two people can see the same play and derive totally different opinions. I loved that flea flicker call. We had an UDFA QB who got sent out to win the game. Time to call some non-standard plays, we aren't winning that game calling for Jeff to throw perfectly timed slants to players he had never thrown to before.

:lol: -If he can't complete a basic slant, how's the flea-flicker bomb thingie supposed to work?  To me, it's the type of play that says "It's OVER" to a team that's already quit emotionally. Terrible, terible, playcall.

View PostFireChan, on 26 May 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

Did it work? Obviously not. But if there's ever a time to pull out all the tricks in your playbook, it was then.

Nope. We needed a big-threat WR there too.  Coulda been a weapon or at the very least a decoy. What the heck are we doing out there if not trying to move the chains?

View PostFireChan, on 26 May 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

Also, don't you think it's a little unfair to write off our big and proven WR, just to complain about not having a big WR? Might as well say, "Cyrus and Cyril could both blow out there knees, I can't believe we didn't upgrade the O-line!!"

Terrible analogy.... Can you really not see how a kid like Bryant or Benjamin could have COMPLIMENTED both Woods and Goodwin?  You think teams like the Patsies say "We have Welker, and Branch, we don't need Gronkowski, and Hernandez" or perhaps Denver thinks Decker and Demariyus are effective enough without Julius Thomas. -NONSENSE. Like it, or not my freind, Overkill is the answer sometimes... IMO, a team that hasn't seen the playoffs in 15 years should be all about finding competitive advantages.

Edited by #34fan, 26 May 2014 - 02:26 AM.


#10 Rob's House

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 09:16 AM

I'm just curious to see how we use him. He has the ability to run deep & intermediate routes, but his bread & butter in college was short passes w/ YAC. It's curious because if they use him like he was used in college it will require EJ to make a lot of the short throws he struggles with.

#11 Mark80

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 09:19 AM

View Post#34fan, on 26 May 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

Buyers's remorse?

Dude, We haven't even taken the thing out of the bag yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what I see in Watkins. Still, the thought of an offense that focuses on the availability of just ONE weapon troubles me. For all we know Mike Williams could spend opening day in a jail cell next to Marcel Dareus. Bob Woods, and Goodwin are good, but they're "smallish" wideouts that can be shut down... Where the heck is our big threat guy? Kelvin BenJamin or Martavis Bryan't would have been IDEAL. How can a safety ignore a 6'5" kid with 4.4 speed streaking down the sideline?

A bona fide big-threat receiver would have exponentialized whatever Sammy does this season. IMO, Moreso than Preston Brown or Ross Cockerell.  -Picks that would have likely been UDFA's had we not gotten in the way.

Guess that's "water under the bridge," now as they say. In the end, what I think can save us is a QB (and O.C.) mature enough to recognize and exploit whatever defenses give them.  Nat Hackett has to set aside dreams of being an offensive genius (He isn't one.) and pay attention to what is going on on the field.  That "flea-flicker" he called for Tuel in Cleveland last year was the DUMMEST most tone-deaf, ego-trip I've ever seen.  It pretty much confirmed everything I thought of him as a coach. Crap like that can't happen again.

I don't have buyer's remorse for Sammy, but to those who think he's a cure-all I say "Buyer beware". This kid needs a solid coaching situation in order to be all we know he can be.

What the hell are you talking about?  "Focuses on the the availability of just one weapon"?  What does that even mean?  Watkins, Spiller, Goodwin, Woods, Williams.  5 legit weapons in the passing game.  Watkins IS our big threat guy.  Williams IS our BIG threat guy in the redzone.  Just because they are tall and fast doesn't mean they are NFL superstars.  Benjamin and Bryant?  Seriously?  Maybe we should have just drafted 6 WRs?  Preston Brown an UDFA?  Unreal.  You're complaining about Watkins "not even out of the bag yet" but at the same time proclaim Brown and Cockerell to be wasted picks already.

Williams and Dareus in jail opening day?  Come on man, get a grip on reality.

#12 uncle flap

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 10:11 AM

View PostRob, on 26 May 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

I'm just curious to see how we use him. He has the ability to run deep & intermediate routes, but his bread & butter in college was short passes w/ YAC. It's curious because if they use him like he was used in college it will require EJ to make a lot of the short throws he struggles with.

The short completions were his bread and butter his junior year moreso because defenses were scared of Watkins getting down the field. Watch this video of his freshman year, and you'll see he was used in a wide variety of ways. https://www.youtube....h?v=0TQCRtp6Peo

Basically, if defenses are worried about a guy like him and consistently give safety help over the top, then of course you're going to defer to simply getting it in his hands ASAP. Look at how AJ Green is used now. He gets the bombs and downfield stuff called often enough, but 60 percent of his catches were within 10 yards. Just like we saw with Sammy, defenses are more willing to give up a short completion and force him to beat the D with the ball in his hands than they are to let him run under a deep ball and try to catch him from behind.

#13 PO'14

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 10:21 AM

View Postuncle flap, on 26 May 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

The short completions were his bread and butter his junior year moreso because defenses were scared of Watkins getting down the field. Watch this video of his freshman year, and you'll see he was used in a wide variety of ways. https://www.youtube....h?v=0TQCRtp6Peo

Basically, if defenses are worried about a guy like him and consistently give safety help over the top, then of course you're going to defer to simply getting it in his hands ASAP. Look at how AJ Green is used now. He gets the bombs and downfield stuff called often enough, but 60 percent of his catches were within 10 yards. Just like we saw with Sammy, defenses are more willing to give up a short completion and force him to beat the D with the ball in his hands than they are to let him run under a deep ball and try to catch him from behind.
AND TO ME, THIS HAS A BIG SMELL OF SUCCESS for the BILLS OFFENSE!

#14 FireChan

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 12:47 PM

View Post#34fan, on 26 May 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

:lol: -If he can't complete a basic slant, how's the flea-flicker bomb thingie supposed to work?  To me, it's the type of play that says "It's OVER" to a team that's already quit emotionally. Terrible, terible, playcall.



Nope. We needed a big-threat WR there too.  Coulda been a weapon or at the very least a decoy. What the heck are we doing out there if not trying to move the chains?



Terrible analogy.... Can you really not see how a kid like Bryant or Benjamin could have COMPLIMENTED both Woods and Goodwin?  You think teams like the Patsies say "We have Welker, and Branch, we don't need Gronkowski, and Hernandez" or perhaps Denver thinks Decker and Demariyus are effective enough without Julius Thomas. -NONSENSE. Like it, or not my freind, Overkill is the answer sometimes... IMO, a team that hasn't seen the playoffs in 15 years should be all about finding competitive advantages.

Anquan Boldin is 6'1'' and gets up for the ball.  Mike WIlliams is 6'2'' and gets up for the ball.  Overkill isn't the answer when you've drafted 3 WR's with starting ability, one of them a top 5 pick.  And traded a useless 6th round pick for another quality starter.  They are other positions that needed help, namely O-line.

You think Kelvin Benjamin will be a better WR than Watkins?  You'd bet on that?  And how does Watkins not complement Woods and Goodwin?   Safeties can ignore him, but not Benjamin?  The best WR prospect in 4 years?  Kelvin Benjamin can easily be a slower James Hardy.

"Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what I see in Benjamin. Still, the thought of an offense that focuses on the availability of just ONE weapon troubles me. For all we know Mike Williams could spend opening day in a jail cell next to Marcel Dareus. Bob Woods, and Goodwin are good, but they're "smallish" wideouts that can be shut down... Where the heck is our big threat guy? Watkins or Martavis Bryan't would have been IDEAL. How can a safety ignore a 6'1" kid with 4.3 speed streaking down the sideline?"

Benjamin runs a 4.64 by the way.  You're talking up a receiver we don't have to prove your point.

Edited by FireChan, 26 May 2014 - 12:51 PM.


#15 #34fan

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 11:15 PM

View PostMark80, on 26 May 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

What the hell are you talking about?  "Focuses on the the availability of just one weapon"?  What does that even mean?  Watkins, Spiller, Goodwin, Woods, Williams.  5 legit weapons in the passing game.  Watkins IS our big threat guy.  Williams IS our BIG threat guy in the redzone.  Just because they are tall and fast doesn't mean they are NFL superstars.  Benjamin and Bryant?  Seriously?  Maybe we should have just drafted 6 WRs?  Preston Brown an UDFA?  Unreal.  You're complaining about Watkins "not even out of the bag yet" but at the same time proclaim Brown and Cockerell to be wasted picks already.

Williams and Dareus in jail opening day?  Come on man, get a grip on reality.

What the hell am I talking about?

I'm talking about a one-dimensional offense that relies on the strengths of one player to score points, and move the chains. If Watkins (by your reckoning our "big threat" guy) is unavailable to play for an indefinite amount of time, the result could be a multi-game losing streak. See EJ Manuel's rookie season for clarification. You can also reference the meltdown that occured when Fred Jackson got hurt in '12.  But If you've been living under a rock, for the last 14 years, I'll clue you in.

Things go wrong.

An when you're in a division like ours, you have to have to plan for those things.  I'm not so sure EJ can consistenly hit smaller, faster targets at the pro level like Goodwin, woods, and Spiller. In the event Watkins can't go, a big, agile, target ensures we can still move the chains. It also gives us a huge red-zone advantage over typically smaller defenders.

As far as my "grip on reality goes" , Marcel Dareus brother was shot to death last year. Earlier this month, Marcel himself was arrested on felony drug charges. Mike Williams had his first DUI as a rookie in 2010.. Since then, he's been arrested on criminal mischief charges, and reportedly stabbed by his brother back in March.  Both players are still going through the judicial process.

View PostFireChan, on 26 May 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Anquan Boldin is 6'1'' and gets up for the ball.  Mike WIlliams is 6'2'' and gets up for the ball.  Overkill isn't the answer when you've drafted 3 WR's with starting ability, one of them a top 5 pick.  And traded a useless 6th round pick for another quality starter.  They are other positions that needed help, namely O-line.

You think Kelvin Benjamin will be a better WR than Watkins? You'd bet on that?  And how does Watkins not complement Woods and Goodwin?   Safeties can ignore him, but not Benjamin?  The best WR prospect in 4 years?  Kelvin Benjamin can easily be a slower James Hardy.

"Don't get me wrong, I'm loving what I see in Benjamin. Still, the thought of an offense that focuses on the availability of just ONE weapon troubles me. For all we know Mike Williams could spend opening day in a jail cell next to Marcel Dareus. Bob Woods, and Goodwin are good, but they're "smallish" wideouts that can be shut down... Where the heck is our big threat guy? Watkins or Martavis Bryan't would have been IDEAL. How can a safety ignore a 6'1" kid with 4.3 speed streaking down the sideline?"

Benjamin runs a 4.64 by the way.  You're talking up a receiver we don't have to prove your point.

I mentioned two receivers by name. One was Kelvin Benjamin, who was clocked at 4.64, the other was Martavis Bryant, who was, in fact, clocked at 4.42. That's a hair faster than Sammy

Also, if you're going to quote people, at least get their statement right. The blue highlighted paragraph was butchered to make your point. -That is simply sad.

And I never once said, or implied that Benjamin was better than Watkins. What I would have liked to see is both of them on the field in Bills uni's. I truly believe they could have turned into an unstoppable combination.

Coming back to the title of the thread, I don't have buyer's remorse. I just think the shopping spree ended prematurely. IMO, We still need a big target.

Edited by #34fan, 27 May 2014 - 11:20 PM.


#16 Rocky Landing

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 12:39 AM

1,200 yards would be great, but not likely. There have only been a handful of rookie WRs to hit 1,200 in the history of the NFL. I'm probably in the minority here (I usually am), but I don't expect a huge year from Watkins, for a number of reasons.

1) There is EJ. (I'm not bashing here) Having missed as much of the last season as he has, he is practically still a rookie. Assuming he steps it up, as we all hope he will, he still isn't going to be a polished vet. A rookie QB to a rookie WR doesn't equal 1,200 yards.

2) As talented as Watkins is, there will still be growing pains. I will admit, the only thing I have seen of Watkins is highlight reel material. That being said, we all know that defenses are a lot tougher in the NFL. Quite a few of Watkins' highlights included blown coverage that just would not have happened in the NFL.

3) If we see a lot of the three, or even four wide sets that some people are predicting (I hope we do), then let's hope that EJ spreads the ball around. A lot.

4) We have a talented stable of receivers. Assuming that EJ does step it up, I personally think that Woods is poised for a 1,000 yard season. I also think that if Mike Williams can keep his head on straight (Marrone obvious thinks he can), he can be a serious impact player. I understand why Lovie Smith dropped him, but he had some amazing plays with the Bucs. Add to that, CJ (who has great hands), and Chandler, who netted the most receiving yards last year.

Still-- no buyer's remorse.

Edited by Rocky Landing, 28 May 2014 - 12:39 AM.


#17 machine gun kelly

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 01:57 AM

We improved this off season, and don't underestimate the additional coaches brought in to help this young team.  I see EJ improving this year, but I don't expect him to be Aaron Rodgers.  We'll win on defense, a prominent running game with a better line, and a serviceable passing game.

If we can just get to 15th in passing, #1 in the run, and a top 5 defense, that would be my preference.

#18 Mark80

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 08:08 AM

View Post#34fan, on 27 May 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

What the hell am I talking about?

I'm talking about a one-dimensional offense that relies on the strengths of one player to score points, and move the chains. If Watkins (by your reckoning our "big threat" guy) is unavailable to play for an indefinite amount of time, the result could be a multi-game losing streak. See EJ Manuel's rookie season for clarification. You can also reference the meltdown that occured when Fred Jackson got hurt in '12.  But If you've been living under a rock, for the last 14 years, I'll clue you in.

Things go wrong.

An when you're in a division like ours, you have to have to plan for those things.  I'm not so sure EJ can consistenly hit smaller, faster targets at the pro level like Goodwin, woods, and Spiller. In the event Watkins can't go, a big, agile, target ensures we can still move the chains. It also gives us a huge red-zone advantage over typically smaller defenders.

As far as my "grip on reality goes" , Marcel Dareus brother was shot to death last year. Earlier this month, Marcel himself was arrested on felony drug charges. Mike Williams had his first DUI as a rookie in 2010.. Since then, he's been arrested on criminal mischief charges, and reportedly stabbed by his brother back in March.  Both players are still going through the judicial process.

What does Marcel's brother being shot or Williams being stabbed by his brother have anything to do with them going to jail?  Last time I checked, an overwhelming majority of victims (Williams) and their family members (Dareus) don't go to prison.  You clearly have little to no understanding of the legal system if you believe Marcel is going to actually be found guilty of a felony.  He'll plead it down to a misdemeanor pay a fine, do a little community service and be done.  As for Williams, criminal mischief charges?  Come on, you really think he's going to jail for that?  These guys can afford to pay for the best defense attorneys in their state, you don't go to jail for such things when you have attorneys that know what they are doing.  That's the reality of it.  100% guaranteed that neither goes to jail for either of those offenses.

As far as the other weak argument, what makes you think it is easier to throw balls to big receivers than small ones.  And these guys are not that agile, they are more straight line speed guys and Benjamin isn't even that fast.  There is a very small window a QB can throw a ball to a covered tall WR that he can snag and the CB cannot grab or knock down.  It is much easier to throw to an open receiver regardless of their size.  If you don't think he can hit our WRs when they are open, who are much better route runners than Benjamin and Bryant, than what makes you think he'll hit the smaller window for a taller WR to make the play when they are covered?  WR has quickly become one of the best strengths on our team, IMO.  You don't get better by improving your strengths slightly, you get better by improving your weaknesses a lot...OL, LB, and DB had to be the targets after we got Watkins.  Period.

Finally, Watkins.  What would make you think he's going to be injured?  He only missed part of one game in his entire college career because of injury and that was just an ankle injury.  You could create the exact same doom and gloom scenario for any team in the league.  Your act just gets old.

Edited by Mark80, 28 May 2014 - 08:17 AM.


#19 QB Bills

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 08:27 AM

View Post#34fan, on 26 May 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

:lol: -If he can't complete a basic slant, how's the flea-flicker bomb thingie supposed to work?  To me, it's the type of play that says "It's OVER" to a team that's already quit emotionally. Terrible, terible, playcall.



Nope. We needed a big-threat WR there too.  Coulda been a weapon or at the very least a decoy. What the heck are we doing out there if not trying to move the chains?



Terrible analogy.... Can you really not see how a kid like Bryant or Benjamin could have COMPLIMENTED both Woods and Goodwin?  You think teams like the Patsies say "We have Welker, and Branch, we don't need Gronkowski, and Hernandez" or perhaps Denver thinks Decker and Demariyus are effective enough without Julius Thomas. -NONSENSE. Like it, or not my freind, Overkill is the answer sometimes... IMO, a team that hasn't seen the playoffs in 15 years should be all about finding competitive advantages.
I guess they could have said they liked their fashion sense or whatever, but that'd be kind of weird.

#20 T master

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:02 AM

View PostDOGNESS, on 25 May 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

A few weeks removed from the Sammy Watkins trade and Im loving this deal even more now than when it went down. The reports from the rookie minicamp are very encouraging. I think we are looking at 80 rec for 1200 yards and 10 tds with NFL rookie of the year honors. Think your gonna see alot of four wide looks which should get CJ going again with more space available. Williams, Woods, Watkins, and Goodwin. Thats a major upgrade over last year. Cant wait till september. Yea I know many of you are gonna come at me with the 'EJ' sucks blast. If your gonna bash this thread, be more original than that.

As long as EJ has a completion percentage (58.5) higher than he had last year & ups his accuracy ...

You can't catch the ball if it's off target to much which was part of the reason why "the experts" said he wa taken to high in the draft !!

And a big reason why we should have taken a flyer on one of the other QB's in this years draft ...