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Bills need DE - Graham/Jordan could fill the need.


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#1 ChanOverChin

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 08:20 PM

When you take a close look at Buffalo's roster, which is deep at most positions, a 4-3 DE is certainly not one of them.  Typically a 4-3 DE needs to be a bigger guy because he's going to be going up against an opposing OT vs the pass and the run.

We have Ma. Williams at one DE position, which is outstanding, but who's going to man the other DE position??  We have M. Lawson at 240 lbs, J. Hughes at 250 lbs, and Wynn at 285 lbs.  Lawson and Hughes are both very good players.  Lawson is better suited to playing LB because he's only 240 lbs and won't hold up well vs 325 lb OTs. Hughes is a designated pass rusher, but won't be especially effective vs the run either.  There's no guarantee that Wynn will even make the team.

Trying to acquire a high quality DE at this point won't be easy, which is why I was surprised that Whaley didn't at least draft a DE in R3 or R4 in this year's draft.
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Two potential DEs are expected to be available this off-season and Whaley just might be interested at Schwartz's behest.  The two are B. Graham and D. Jordan.

See link for more info: http://www.nfl.com/n...rade-candidates.

Remember that Whaley could view this year as his one and only opportunity to prove to new Bills ownership that he should be retained as the team's GM.

#2 Max997

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 08:35 PM

The Dolphins are not trading Jordan without getting a first round pick in return which the Bills don't have obviously so I can't see how he would even be an option especially being in the same division.

Graham is intriguing mainly bc the price shouldn't be too high but I think he wants a new contract even though for the most part has been a disappointed to this point in his career.

The Bills have said that Lawson and Hughes will man the DE position opposite Mario. Even though he is undersized I would really like to see Hughes get more playing time to see if he can be an every down lineman and find out if they should think about extending him.

Edited by Max997, 25 May 2014 - 09:21 PM.


#3 ChanOverChin

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 08:45 PM

Jordan is not as highly regarded under the new Miami GM.  I think he could be had for a R3 pick.  Miami may consider trading for a player as well much like when Buffalo traded Sheppard for Hughes.  Miami needs help on the O-line and I expect the Bills to have some very good expendable players at that position.

Graham is more likely to be picked up by the suddenly trade-happy Whaley.  He would be a nice bargain for a R4 pick.

#4 FluffHead

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 09:10 PM

View PostChanOverChin, on 25 May 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

When you take a close look at Buffalo's roster, which is deep at most positions, a 4-3 DE is certainly not one of them.  Typically a 4-3 DE needs to be a bigger guy because he's going to be going up against an opposing OT vs the pass and the run.

Actually the 4-3 allows for smaller DEs typically. That's why I think they are ready to roll with Lawson and Wynn on early downs and Hughes on third. Branch could see some time at DE on run heavy situations.

#5 Max997

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 09:24 PM

View PostChanOverChin, on 25 May 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Jordan is not as highly regarded under the new Miami GM.  I think he could be had for a R3 pick.  Miami may consider trading for a player as well much like when Buffalo traded Sheppard for Hughes.  Miami needs help on the O-line and I expect the Bills to have some very good expendable players at that position.

Graham is more likely to be picked up by the suddenly trade-happy Whaley.  He would be a nice bargain for a R4 pick.

You think the Dolphins would trade a player they traded up in the top 5 of first round to get just last year for a third round pick? If that was the case he would be an Eagle bc there were rumors Chip Kelly wanted him but wouldn't meet the Dolphins price which started with their first round pick.

What expendable players will the Bills have on the O-line?

Edited by Max997, 25 May 2014 - 10:13 PM.


#6 DukeyBomb

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 09:36 PM

Morgan would be the best pick out of all of them.

#7 YoloinOhio

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 09:46 PM

View PostChanOverChin, on 25 May 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:


Jordan is not as highly regarded under the new Miami GM.  I think he could be had for a R3 pick.  Miami may consider trading for a player as well much like when Buffalo traded Sheppard for Hughes.  Miami needs help on the O-line and I expect the Bills to have some very good expendable players at that position.

Graham is more likely to be picked up by the suddenly trade-happy Whaley.  He would be a nice bargain for a R4 pick.
The Bills can't afford make any "very good" OL players expendable. OL and CB are typically the two thinnest areas of depth across the board in the  NFL. Now that we have a FA and some rookies to add, that doesn't mean we can get rid of anyone who is "very good" there. Whaley went into the draft saying he didn't feel there were any glaring holes, then proceeded not to draft a DE or, unless I am mistaken, even sign one as a UDFA. Nothing would surprise me anymore, but I doubt he trades for one as it appears he feels the roster is set. I could see them signing a decent DE who gets cut at the end of camp since we have cap space for 2014 but he'd need to fit the system well to contribute after missing camp.

#8 Dragonborn10

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 01:34 AM

As fluffhead said a 4-3 DE can be a bit lighter that a 3-4 DE.  Think Aaron Schoebel not Manny Lawson though. 265-275 is really starting to get very small at DE.  Branch and even Dareus can move out to DE in some odd 3 man or 4 man fronts.  Barring a trade or a veteran training camp salary dump pick-up DE is going to be a giant hole all year.  

And yes Jordan is Maybin 2.0.  I posted it before the draft and stand by it now.

#9 ChanOverChin

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 07:16 PM

I expect the Bills to make a move for a DE.  If Whaley wants to win now he will need to make this move.  Ideally, you'd like to have a 4-3 DE be at least 265 lbs.  Hughes and Lawson both weigh less than that.

Whaley will have to do what he has to do.  That could mean a vet player for a DE or a draft pic for a DE.

Guys who could be expendable:  OT Pears/OT Hairston/RB F. Jackson/WR TJ Graham/WR Easley/WR R. Barden.

Don't forget that as has been stated in the link that I posted above Miami's current GM did NOT draft Jordan and doesn't have near the faith in him that his predecessor did.

Whaley pulled off a player for player deal last year that paid huge dividends.  I look for him to do the same this year.

#10 John from Hemet

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 07:30 PM

Is this a bad time to point out we didnt run a 3-4 last year and the personnel hasnt changed at all?

#11 Dragonborn10

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 07:36 PM

View PostJohn from Hemet, on 26 May 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

Is this a bad time to point out we didnt run a 3-4 last year and the personnel hasnt changed at all?
Not at all, as long as you are ok with me reminding you how bad the run defense was last year...

#12 John from Hemet

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 07:40 PM

Spikes

and

KIKO is not fighting off blocks of linemen from his new position

Its almost like fixing 2 positions at once

Edited by John from Hemet, 26 May 2014 - 07:40 PM.


#13 Saint Doug

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:07 PM

Haven't people been throwing around that we played nearly 70% of our snaps out of a 4-3 formation last year? Seemed to work out pretty well then, so I'm not exactly worried about the DE position.

Edit: Duh, didn't see it posted a few posts above me.

Edited by kas23, 26 May 2014 - 08:08 PM.


#14 It's in My Blood

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:09 PM

View PostChanOverChin, on 26 May 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

I expect the Bills to make a move for a DE.  If Whaley wants to win now he will need to make this move.  Ideally, you'd like to have a 4-3 DE be at least 265 lbs.  Hughes and Lawson both weigh less than that.

Whaley will have to do what he has to do.  That could mean a vet player for a DE or a draft pic for a DE.

Guys who could be expendable:  OT Pears/OT Hairston/RB F. Jackson/WR TJ Graham/WR Easley/WR R. Barden.

Don't forget that as has been stated in the link that I posted above Miami's current GM did NOT draft Jordan and doesn't have near the faith in him that his predecessor did.

Whaley pulled off a player for player deal last year that paid huge dividends.  I look for him to do the same this year.

Your post turned to **** when you listed FJax as "expendable".

#15 SJDK

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:11 PM

View PostChanOverChin, on 25 May 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:


Remember that Whaley could view this year as his one and only opportunity to prove to new Bills ownership that he should be retained as the team's GM.
Exactly why we are seeing all this action, couldn't agree more. I think dude from the eagles would work out the best provided the other outside linebacker is very fast/athletic.
Ps. Fred isn't dead bruddah

Edited by SJDK, 26 May 2014 - 08:15 PM.


#16 FluffHead

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:19 PM

View PostJohn from Hemet, on 26 May 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

Is this a bad time to point out we didnt run a 3-4 last year and the personnel hasnt changed at all?

The two schemes are not the same. Schwartz's defenses looked nothing like Pettine's. Just because both could be categorized as 43 doesn't mean they are the same. Schwartz is wayyyyy more traditional 43

#17 jeremy2020

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:22 PM

View PostDragonborn10, on 26 May 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

Not at all, as long as you are ok with me reminding you how bad the run defense was last year...

I'd be more concerned about LBs in that case

#18 KOKBILLS

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:31 PM

View PostChanOverChin, on 25 May 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

When you take a close look at Buffalo's roster, which is deep at most positions, a 4-3 DE is certainly not one of them.  Typically a 4-3 DE needs to be a bigger guy because he's going to be going up against an opposing OT vs the pass and the run.

We have Ma. Williams at one DE position, which is outstanding, but who's going to man the other DE position??  We have M. Lawson at 240 lbs, J. Hughes at 250 lbs, and Wynn at 285 lbs.  Lawson and Hughes are both very good players.  Lawson is better suited to playing LB because he's only 240 lbs and won't hold up well vs 325 lb OTs. Hughes is a designated pass rusher, but won't be especially effective vs the run either.  There's no guarantee that Wynn will even make the team.

Trying to acquire a high quality DE at this point won't be easy, which is why I was surprised that Whaley didn't at least draft a DE in R3 or R4 in this year's draft.
.
Two potential DEs are expected to be available this off-season and Whaley just might be interested at Schwartz's behest.  The two are B. Graham and D. Jordan.

See link for more info: http://www.nfl.com/n...rade-candidates.

Remember that Whaley could view this year as his one and only opportunity to prove to new Bills ownership that he should be retained as the team's GM.

The entire problem with Jordan in Miami is that he's not a 4-3 DE...Why they Drafted him for that D is still beyond me...

Besides the fact that Miami would want a King's ransom for him... B-)

#19 John from Hemet

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:40 PM

View PostFluffHead, on 26 May 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

The two schemes are not the same. Schwartz's defenses looked nothing like Pettine's. Just because both could be categorized as 43 doesn't mean they are the same. Schwartz is wayyyyy more traditional 43

Were not gonna know till we actually see it

#20 FluffHead

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:50 PM

View PostJohn from Hemet, on 26 May 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:


Were not gonna know till we actually see it

Ok I get that the company line is that the coach will adapt the system to the players. Realistically though coaches stick with what they know.

Schwartz defenses in Tennessee and Detroit were much more traditional in their alignment in that there wasn't a lot of disguise and typically the DE was setting the edge.

Pettine's 43 looks here included more exotic looks that provided him the opportunity to play a larger player such as branch at DE and use a LB to set the edge.