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Jimmy Graham, Tight End


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#1 NoSaint

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:50 PM

I know there were several threads on it this offseason - and not just as a new orleans resident, but being interested in the arguments on a broad level I was definitely following this one.... it was ruled today that Jimmy Graham is in fact a tight end for the tag.

I think it is the right call, but i know several here disagree.

#2 kdiggz

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:52 PM

it's the right call.  the wrong call is having such a big gap in pay between WR and TE.  but at the end of the day the guy is a TE

#3 4merper4mer

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:55 PM

Does anyone think he could be converted to LB and replace Kiko?

#4 Nanker

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 03:03 PM

View Post4merper4mer, on 02 July 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Does anyone think he could be converted to LB and replace Kiko?
Only if Sammy performed a laying on of hands and imbued him with the power.

#5 NoSaint

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

View Postkdiggz, on 02 July 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

it's the right call.  the wrong call is having such a big gap in pay between WR and TE.  but at the end of the day the guy is a TE

the way you fix that is getting guys like jimmy counted in the TE tag. Suddenly the top 5 will be guys like Jimmy, Gronk, Vernon Davis etc... and they will simply be on fair market deals that they agreed to.

#6 4merper4mer

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

View PostNanker, on 02 July 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Only if Sammy performed a laying on of hands and imbued him with the power.

My hamster Sammy has paws, not hands and he is ornery.  He won't do it.  Are you talking about Sammy Watkins?

#7 TakeYouToTasker

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:33 PM

He should refuse to report.  Period.

#8 BringBackFergy

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:37 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 02 July 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

I know there were several threads on it this offseason - and not just as a new orleans resident, but being interested in the arguments on a broad level I was definitely following this one.... it was ruled today that Jimmy Graham is in fact a tight end for the tag.

I think it is the right call, but i know several here disagree.
Right call.

#9 Nanker

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:42 PM

View Post4merper4mer, on 02 July 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

My hamster Sammy has paws, not hands and he is ornery.  He won't do it.  Are you talking about Sammy Watkins?
Yes, yes. Of course. But I should have known. From what I've read here Sammy Watkins can do just about anything - except perhaps to heal Kiko. But ya never should say, "never" I always say.

#10 machine gun kelly

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:52 PM

The way the gap closes will close somewhat over time as what is the most sought after talent everyone wants the last four to five years, an athletic basketball type person with speed to play TE.

As more of them come up for their second contract like the Denver TE, the recent deals for Gronk and Hernandez, Graham soon to be contract, will eventually drive up the avg tag price.

FWIW, I agree on the decision.  If the guy wanted a WR tag, he should have lobbied Peyton 4 years ago.  These are not the old school TE with a hand in the dirt.

#11 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:19 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 02 July 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

I know there were several threads on it this offseason - and not just as a new orleans resident, but being interested in the arguments on a broad level I was definitely following this one.... it was ruled today that Jimmy Graham is in fact a tight end for the tag.

I think it is the right call, but i know several here disagree.
It is the right call. I actually think the best solution would have been a hybrid. 67% of the WR tag and 33% of the TE tag. Ironically, I think that number is almost exactly what he is going to get as part of his long term deal (in the $10.5M range).

Edited by Kirby Jackson, 02 July 2014 - 05:21 PM.


#12 machine gun kelly

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:42 PM

KJ - I think your  right in the ballpark.  This morning I heard from one of the past GM's thinking they'll resolve by camp just like the Bree's dealmwithnprobably $20 mil guaranteed and they reported thinking around 9.5-10 mil / yr.

#13 Beerball

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:37 PM

Not so fast my friend sez Jordan Cameron.

#14 NoSaint

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:22 PM

View PostBeerball, on 02 July 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:


I mentioned "the jimmy graham" listing himself as a tight end on social media pretty early in the offseason. Can't believe he didnt atleast delete that line back in January. Seemed obvious it made an "I'm not a tight end" argument an uphill battle when you are actively and publicly declaring yourself one

#commonsense

#15 Mr. WEO

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 11:54 PM

Totally predicable ruling by the arbitrator.  Even Graham isn't the least bit surprised.

#16 section122

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

I heard an interesting take on the radio.  The premise was that franchise tags will get murkier and murkier and positions become this varied.

There are blocking te and pass catching tes which are of different value to teams but not the tag.

There are coverage olbs and pass rushing olbs that are of different value to teams but not the tag.

Same with rt and lt, all of the different db positions etc...

I believe it was Schlereth on espn radio talking about it and his solution was to have different tags for the specialties.  It might not solve every problem but it would certainly help in this case.

Right now it is effecting the pass catching tes but as the pendulum swings it will be the blocking ones that are eventually left out in the cold.

#17 NoSaint

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:20 PM

View Postsection122, on 03 July 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

I heard an interesting take on the radio.  The premise was that franchise tags will get murkier and murkier and positions become this varied.

There are blocking te and pass catching tes which are of different value to teams but not the tag.

There are coverage olbs and pass rushing olbs that are of different value to teams but not the tag.

Same with rt and lt, all of the different db positions etc...

I believe it was Schlereth on espn radio talking about it and his solution was to have different tags for the specialties.  It might not solve every problem but it would certainly help in this case.

Right now it is effecting the pass catching tes but as the pendulum swings it will be the blocking ones that are eventually left out in the cold.


while i get the point, the real issue here is that he wants to be paid more than the top pass catching tight ends. the top pass catching tight ends in the league do not get paid WR money. The tag is made up of pass catchers like davis, gronk, in years past gonzales.... if i recall last years top 5 paid tight ends had 3 that were split wide more than 50% of the time.

while there are some issues at play with not being able to tag a center without paying him LT money, or an in line traditional TE without paying him dynamic receiver money - really, if you think you should be the highest paid at your position, you will always be upset by the tag.

Edited by NoSaint, 03 July 2014 - 05:20 PM.


#18 vincec

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:57 AM

View PostNoSaint, on 02 July 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

the way you fix that is getting guys like jimmy counted in the TE tag. Suddenly the top 5 will be guys like Jimmy, Gronk, Vernon Davis etc... and they will simply be on fair market deals that they agreed to.
Sort of.  Except NO can franchise him using the current TE contracts as the basis and pay him well below is market value.  I realize that this will slowly go up as the franchise tags get more expensive but it'll be well behind the actual current market value for TEs and won't do Jimmy Graham any good.

#19 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:04 PM

View Postvincec, on 05 July 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:


Sort of.  Except NO can franchise him using the current TE contracts as the basis and pay him well below is market value.  I realize that this will slowly go up as the franchise tags get more expensive but it'll be well behind the actual current market value for TEs and won't do Jimmy Graham any good.
I think that what he is saying is that the long term contract that Graham is about to get (they are saying $10M a yearish) and Vernon Davis' new contract coming will spike the tag number. If you substantially inflate the value of 2 contracts the average value of the top 5 will jump.

#20 K-9

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:07 PM

View PostTakeYouToTasker, on 02 July 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

He should refuse to report.  Period.

That's certainly his prerogative. Not sure what that would accomplish for him, but he's free not to report.

GO BILLS!!!