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#21 Azalin

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 02:08 PM

"Know anyone with a disease?"

A disease? "A" disease? How about addiction? That's a disease...is cannabis going to cure addiction to pot?


it's really effective for eliminating anxiety caused by not having any weed.

#22 Tiberius

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 02:16 PM

No, you !@#$ing moron, it's because I don't automatically trust some idiot's words because he has camera.

For someone who's trying to "spread the word," you seem pretty incapable of having a discussion about the medically relevant facts. Which isn't a real shocker.

Boy, you sure write just like another poster on here

#23 Bob in Mich

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 02:31 PM

Many folks are unaware that cannabis has been used as medicine for about 50 times longer than it has been prohibited by the US Government. Once you know that it has been called medicine in the past it might be a little easier to accept now as medicine for some people.

See these excerpts from the US Pharmacopeia dated 1900. These are instructions as to how to make an extract of the ground up cannabis plant. This is remarkably similar to the method shown on that video where Rick Simpson 'washes' the cannabis with a solvent and then boils off the solvent.

The plant was outlawed and vilified in the 1930's and pretty much all research halted then. The American Medical Association opposed the prohibition at that time because they feared that research would be halted on the plant. They were right.

http://antiquecannab...dix/USP1900.htm

A pre-prohibition (pre 1937) look at cannabis in the USA.

http://antiquecannabisbook.com

Edited by Bob in Mich, 26 August 2014 - 09:16 AM.


#24 FireChan

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 05:11 PM

Boy, you sure write just like another poster on here


It's because I'm a chameleon. You should see my gatorman.

Edited by FireChan, 19 July 2014 - 05:14 PM.


#25 Bob in Mich

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:17 AM

(This is a repost from another marijuana thread. I just want to consolidate the information )


I don't want to preach but there is something that tripped up a lot of patients in Michigan when the medical cannabis initiative passed here. Yes, it was a 2008 ballot initiative in Michigan that won 63% to 37%

Anyway, be careful in discussions with your doctors. It sounds odd to say because generally they are such experts and we confide in them, but most doctors were taught only about the harmful effects of this in med school. Also, consider that most doctors were studious and weren't necessarily the most streetwise and so didn't learn a lot about cannabis growing up. Add in the fact that very few pharmaceutical companies are pushing cannabis based solutions. Doctors, with few exceptions, are not experts on cannabis based solutions. Many are very opposed.

Don't talk about your usage or desire to use cannabis until you have felt them out a little. Maybe the old, 'I have this friend that was talking about using cannabis to treat...' would be a good approach. If you decide to try to have a frank discussion come armed with copies of research abstracts and copies of links to recent reports.

Be prepared for resistance and I hate to say it, but be prepared to hear astounding ignorance stated very confidently. From their viewpoint I think they feel that they are the experts and so if they are not aware of the cannabis option, it is just some internet fluff or worse, an attempt to secure drugs from them. They may even label you a 'drug seeker'.

Many patients found out the hard way here in Michigan that even though the state laws changed, the doctor or more often his/her practice or hospital, had an anti-cannabis policy. Many patients were dropped outright for admitting that they used cannabis to treat the same condition their doctor was treating. Others with doctor monitored opiate dependencies were forced into periodic pee tests and if testing positive for cannabis and/or negative for opiates, were cut off from their opiate prescriptions. Sounds insane but that was not uncommon at all.

#26 Hazed and Amuzed

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:36 AM

Tom, I like humor as much as the next guy, probably more. I usually prefer joke filled conversations to serious ones.

Sometimes though people are trying to make a serious point, like in a thread such as this and jokes get in the way of the message. Certainly a free country and free board and you can do whatever you wish. I'd like to ask however that if you have serious questions or comments, by all means ask and I will try to help. If you just want to make mst3k comments though, please keep them to yourself. Just asking... Thanks.

Maybe you can educate us as to why you are so dead set against cannabis and any of its users. After all of the info I have shown to you, you seem to get a kick out of calling all cannabis users stoners. Why are you seemingly unable to open your mind up to the fact that maybe you missed something regarding cannabis? There just may be some information that you don't already know that could help you or one of your loved ones. Possible?

You mention addiction but in a mocking way. Cannabis has widespread use in treating addiction if you want to know the truth. 'Harm reduction' is the term used when moving someone from a more dangerous substance to a safer one. Still technically addicted but now in less danger. Heroin addicts are transitioned to methadone as a form of harm reduction. Arguably as bad, but at least pure and measured dosages minimize accidents.

Did you even look at the links that I have posted. That 2006 report on therapeutic uses of cannabis ( http://pharmrev.aspe...9.full.pdf html ) mentions using cannabis to treat many forms of addiction. In the medical community, obviously not yet in your mind Tom, but in the med community, transitioning to cannabis is considered harm reduction. Cannabis does not damage the organs of the body like alcohol, tobacco, heroin, opiates, methadone, etc.

And no, smoking cannabis does not increase the risk of lung cancer either. Remember watching that part in the video?



I work in the field of addiction and treatment, I also am a recovering addict/alcoholic who had been sober of all substances for years now. Notice my screen name? I was a pothead when I came up with it, just qualifying. Marijuana maintnence for treating addiction is not a solution to anything, I don't care what youtube says, I don't care what NBC says, I'm telling you from my experience personally and professionally. I've seen thousands of people whose life was destroyed by addiction, thousands. And believe it or not a very large portion was indeed destroyed by marijuana.

Now do I think it should be used as a medicine? Yep. Problem is too many people are full of crap when they see their doctor. Doctors are more the problem then the drugs. It's waaayyy too easy to manipulate a doctor for drugs, and there's usually no accountability. This I know from both personal and professional experience also. I understand you believe in the wonders of pot, that's great but people used to believe in the wonders of opium, coca and etc.... You know how that ended up.

#27 Bob in Mich

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 08:49 AM

Here is a related NFL story from January

Goodell: NFL would consider allowing medical marijuana


http://www.usatoday....ijuana/4797267/

#28 Hazed and Amuzed

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 09:08 AM

Here is a related NFL story from January

Goodell: NFL would consider allowing medical marijuana


http://www.usatoday....ijuana/4797267/


I don't see that happening anytime in the near future. Roger was just answering a question based on a hypothetical scenario during SB week where both teams playing are from states that legalized it. I also think that the number of 50-60% using it in the NFL for "pain management" is ridiculous. People tend to lie to themselves when it comes to pain. I'm not disputing marijuanas ability to help with pain, just saying there are other ways to deal with it. My wife had a c-section and got by with ibuprofen 800, barely finishing half the bottle. A friend of mine just died of cancer and got through the pain without any narcotics, booze or weed for a couple of years before passing away. Not saying that pain management thru medication isn't an asset, just that there are other options and people are so convinced that they NEED narcotics and such that they sometimes exaggerate the pain. Not knocking it, hell I did for years. Again things like marijuana and narcotics are extremely helpful but not a necessity.

#29 Bob in Mich

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 09:34 AM

I work in the field of addiction and treatment, I also am a recovering addict/alcoholic who had been sober of all substances for years now. Notice my screen name? I was a pothead when I came up with it, just qualifying. Marijuana maintnence for treating addiction is not a solution to anything, I don't care what youtube says, I don't care what NBC says, I'm telling you from my experience personally and professionally. I've seen thousands of people whose life was destroyed by addiction, thousands. And believe it or not a very large portion was indeed destroyed by marijuana.

Now do I think it should be used as a medicine? Yep. Problem is too many people are full of crap when they see their doctor. Doctors are more the problem then the drugs. It's waaayyy too easy to manipulate a doctor for drugs, and there's usually no accountability. This I know from both personal and professional experience also. I understand you believe in the wonders of pot, that's great but people used to believe in the wonders of opium, coca and etc.... You know how that ended up.


You make some excellent points. Addiction is a terrible thing and I too have seen addiction ruin lives. Mostly alcoholics but I have seen coke addicts, meth addicts, and lots of people very dependent on pain medicine. It certainly is an illness that seems impossible for some to overcome.

As an addiction professional, I imagine you see the people that already have a serious problem. I very much value your input but I feel that your perspective is somewhat skewed. If you only worked with and were yourself a recovered very obese individual, you may want to restrict lots of foods that most of us love and can handle.

Harm reduction, as I am sure you are aware, is an attempt to put the patient into a safer situation. A person can get to a safer place if they can transition off of a daily routine of vicodins, muscle relaxers, nerve medicine, sleep aids, (and various pills to overcome the side effects of the scripts) to a cannabis based solution. I feel that is obvious

#30 Bob in Mich

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:17 AM

This is from a medical marijuana board - http://www.michiganm...almarijuana.org No, I am not affiliated.

Many Thanks to the original poster. These types of transitions are not at all uncommon. It is about the only way many doctors are being convinced. Their pain med patients are not pounding on their door every 30 days because they have found an effective substitute that is not destroying their organs.

(Note: MMJ, referred to below, is medical marijuana)

--------------------------------------


Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:34 AM
I don't remember much of January after my accident. I was on 750mg of Vicodin every 4 hours, plus a couple of Flexiril per day. Ibuprofen was added to the mix as well. I couldn't get anything done, had very little short term memory, and eventually the Flexiril started messing with my eyesight. Friends were growing concerned and advising me to be careful with the Vicodin.

In February I knew I needed to do something to change the path I was on. I began weening myself off the Flexiril and cut back on the Vicodin, and increased my Ibuprofen intake to try and deal with the pain. I got off the Flexiril, and cut my Vicodin usage in half.

In March a concerned friend provided me with some MMJ. I noticed a pleasant decrease in how my pain was affecting me. So I cut back on both my Vicodin and Ibuprofen use. By April I was down to 375 mg of Vicodin 2-3 times a day. I also cut back my Ibuprofen usage.

This progress continued until present day. I haven't taken a Vicodin in days. I take 3-4 Ibuprofen or Tylenol in the morn. I medicate with MMJ 3-4 times a day. I'm walking 1.5 - 2.25 miles per day now, whereas before I could hardly get out of bed.

Unless I do something stupid, or have an accident, this is how my life is these days. If I have a mishap, then I might grab 375mg of Vicodin to get the pain under control, but I no longer regularly dose with this addictive drug.

MMJ has made my life a lot more normal, and keeps me from having to take addictive drugs to get relief.

Edited by Bob in Mich, 20 July 2014 - 10:19 AM.


#31 4merper4mer

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:43 AM

(This is a repost from another marijuana thread. I just want to consolidate the information )


I don't want to preach but there is something that tripped up a lot of patients in Michigan when the medical cannabis initiative passed here. Yes, it was a 2008 ballot initiative in Michigan that won 63% to 37%

Anyway, be careful in discussions with your doctors. It sounds odd to say because generally they are such experts and we confide in them, but most doctors were taught only about the harmful effects of this in med school. Also, consider that most doctors were studious and weren't necessarily the most streetwise and so didn't learn a lot about cannabis growing up. Add in the fact that very few pharmaceutical companies are pushing cannabis based solutions. Doctors, with few exceptions, are not experts on cannabis based solutions. Many are very opposed.

Don't talk about your usage or desire to use cannabis until you have felt them out a little. Maybe the old, 'I have this friend that was talking about using cannabis to treat...' would be a good approach. If you decide to try to have a frank discussion come armed with copies of research abstracts and copies of links to recent reports.

Be prepared for resistance and I hate to say it, but be prepared to hear astounding ignorance stated very confidently. From their viewpoint I think they feel that they are the experts and so if they are not aware of the cannabis option, it is just some internet fluff or worse, an attempt to secure drugs from them. They may even label you a 'drug seeker'.

Many patients found out the hard way here in Michigan that even though the state laws changed, the doctor or more often his/her practice or hospital, had an anti-cannabis policy. Many patients were dropped outright for admitting that they used cannabis to treat the same condition their doctor was treating. Others with doctor monitored opiate dependencies were forced into periodic pee tests and if testing positive for cannabis and/or negative for opiates, were cut off from their opiate prescriptions. Sounds insane but that was not uncommon at all.


I'll take things a pusher would say for $800 Alex.

#32 Hazed and Amuzed

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 11:03 AM

This is from a medical marijuana board - http://www.michiganm...almarijuana.org No, I am not affiliated.

Many Thanks to the original poster. These types of transitions are not at all uncommon. It is about the only way many doctors are being convinced. Their pain med patients are not pounding on their door every 30 days because they have found an effective substitute that is not destroying their organs.

(Note: MMJ, referred to below, is medical marijuana)

--------------------------------------


Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:34 AM
I don't remember much of January after my accident. I was on 750mg of Vicodin every 4 hours, plus a couple of Flexiril per day. Ibuprofen was added to the mix as well. I couldn't get anything done, had very little short term memory, and eventually the Flexiril started messing with my eyesight. Friends were growing concerned and advising me to be careful with the Vicodin.

In February I knew I needed to do something to change the path I was on. I began weening myself off the Flexiril and cut back on the Vicodin, and increased my Ibuprofen intake to try and deal with the pain. I got off the Flexiril, and cut my Vicodin usage in half.

In March a concerned friend provided me with some MMJ. I noticed a pleasant decrease in how my pain was affecting me. So I cut back on both my Vicodin and Ibuprofen use. By April I was down to 375 mg of Vicodin 2-3 times a day. I also cut back my Ibuprofen usage.

This progress continued until present day. I haven't taken a Vicodin in days. I take 3-4 Ibuprofen or Tylenol in the morn. I medicate with MMJ 3-4 times a day. I'm walking 1.5 - 2.25 miles per day now, whereas before I could hardly get out of bed.

Unless I do something stupid, or have an accident, this is how my life is these days. If I have a mishap, then I might grab 375mg of Vicodin to get the pain under control, but I no longer regularly dose with this addictive drug.

MMJ has made my life a lot more normal, and keeps me from having to take addictive drugs to get relief.


The last sentence always makes me wonder why people think weed is not addictive. While you don't get the same type of withdrawals from marijuana they are still present, however because Cannabinoids bind to fat cells the withdrawals are slower and more subtle, this is why you can test positive for THC in a urinalysis for up to 30 after ingestion. It's the release of dopamine that makes it addictive. Think of the movie Half Baked, Jon Stewarts character who kept asking if they had ever seen such and such movie on weed. Weed makes things better because of a dopamine release, that's why music sounds better, movies are funnier and etc. once you take away the weed, things seem less interesting. The music doesn't change, just your experience, your brain recognizes that and it takes awhile of being sober for it to readjust. THATS addiction.

#33 Bob in Mich

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 11:34 AM

Really no one here is saying that cannabis can not be addictive. It can be to about 9-10% of users, from what I have read.

What I am saying is that if you have someone that cannot seem to rid themselves of an addiction, say vicodin, and you can substitute cannabis and have that be an effective replacement, you are reducing potential harm to the patient.

Also, that information concerning addiction that I referenced is not from the youtube video, it is from the research study of Therapeutic Possibilities of Cannabinoids. See the link It is quite far from a fluff document.

http://pharmrev.aspe...9.full.pdf html

Edited by Bob in Mich, 20 July 2014 - 11:37 AM.


#34 FireChan

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 12:01 PM

Really no one here is saying that cannabis can not be addictive. It can be to about 9-10% of users, from what I have read.

What I am saying is that if you have someone that cannot seem to rid themselves of an addiction, say vicodin, and you can substitute cannabis and have that be an effective replacement, you are reducing potential harm to the patient.

Also, that information concerning addiction that I referenced is not from the youtube video, it is from the research study of Therapeutic Possibilities of Cannabinoids. See the link It is quite far from a fluff document.

http://pharmrev.aspe...9.full.pdf html


"cannabinoids may retard the development of embryos, eventually leading to fetal loss and pregnancy failure"

"CB 1 knockout mice were reported to have impaired oviductal transport of embryos, leading to embryo retention. This suggests that treatment with CB1antagonists may facilitate ectopic pregnancy"

"daily marijuana smoking is a risk factor for progression of fibrosis among people with chronic hepatitis C infection"

"Most of these studies also reported various systemic side effects, such as hypotension, tachycardia, euphoria, and dysphoria, as well as other ocular effects, such as changes in pupil size, decreased tear production, and conjunctival hyperemia."

The wonder-drug! Do you know someone with pain who's pregnant? Use marijuana! Someone with Hep C? Marijuana can cure that **** probably! Heart condition? Oh, don't bother telling your doctor you're using marijuana behind his back, you'll be cured in no time!

The wonder drug, coming with horrific side-effects to a pharmacy near you! Just make sure you don't tell your doctor about it!

Edited by FireChan, 20 July 2014 - 12:03 PM.


#35 Bob in Mich

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 12:42 PM

You can lead a horse to water....

I didn't say don't talk to your doctor, if you actually read the words. Here this is what I said (from above):

Anyway, be careful in discussions with your doctors. It sounds odd to say because generally they are such experts and we confide in them, but most doctors were taught only about the harmful effects of this in med school. Also, consider that most doctors were studious and weren't necessarily the most streetwise and so didn't learn a lot about cannabis growing up. Add in the fact that very few pharmaceutical companies are pushing cannabis based solutions. Doctors, with few exceptions, are not experts on cannabis based solutions. Many are very opposed.

Don't talk about your usage or desire to use cannabis until you have felt them out a little. Maybe the old, 'I have this friend that was talking about using cannabis to treat...' would be a good approach



I know full well that it will not cure everyone of everything. And it has been mentioned, it has side effects though they are mild.

What I am saying is that there are tremedous medicinal properties within the plant. After reading 6 pages of stoner accusations and misconceptions in the earlier marijuana thread I wanted to try to educate some folks hoping that the information might help them.

If you can't see the possibilities already, you probably never will.

Edited by Bob in Mich, 20 July 2014 - 01:12 PM.


#36 FireChan

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 01:22 PM

You can lead a horse to water....

I didn't say don't talk to your doctor, if you actually read the words. Here this is what I said (from above):

Anyway, be careful in discussions with your doctors. It sounds odd to say because generally they are such experts and we confide in them, but most doctors were taught only about the harmful effects of this in med school. Also, consider that most doctors were studious and weren't necessarily the most streetwise and so didn't learn a lot about cannabis growing up. Add in the fact that very few pharmaceutical companies are pushing cannabis based solutions. Doctors, with few exceptions, are not experts on cannabis based solutions. Many are very opposed.

Don't talk about your usage or desire to use cannabis until you have felt them out a little. Maybe the old, 'I have this friend that was talking about using cannabis to treat...' would be a good approach



I know full well that it will not cure everyone of everything. And it has been mentioned, it has side effects though they are mild.

What I am saying is that there are tremedous medicinal properties within the plant. After reading 6 pages of stoner accusations and misconceptions in the earlier marijuana thread I wanted to try to educate some folks hoping that the information might help them.

If you can't see the possibilities already, you probably never will.


So, you have a heart condition and you regularly smoke marijuana. You don't tell your doctor because you haven't "felt him out enough." Then you get tachycardia, and die.

Thank Bob in Mich, M.D.

Edited by FireChan, 20 July 2014 - 01:24 PM.


#37 Boyst62

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 03:19 PM

Seriously, this is hilarious. Bob, your agenda is clear and that is wonderful you have some beliefs, but come on... this isn't the place to be peddling marijuana just like it is not the place to be peddling wearing seatbelts.

I won't even get in to your nonsensical debate because it'd get neither of us anywhere. Marijuana is a crock, if you need to understand my reasoning search my posts about it on PPP. It's a sham and a shill for big time headlines and power players that want a piece of the action. It is no more effective then most other holistic treatments involving other natural substances, including plants and byproducts of animals. Marijuana gets the front page coverage and the headlining act because of dopeheads and the agenda of stoners.

#38 Bob in Mich

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 03:51 PM

This seemed to be a forum for issues of the day. The discussion that I joined was 6 pages in before I got involved so I don't think I can take credit for starting that one. I started this post to try and unbury the information from such a long thread that was full of name calling.

I have tried to convince people to look at the cannabis info with an open mind. I hope that some have. I have provided you plenty of information to get started. If interested, continue the research. If not, don't.

#39 Boyst62

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:05 PM

This seemed to be a forum for issues of the day. The discussion that I joined was 6 pages in before I got involved so I don't think I can take credit for starting that one. I started this post to try and unbury the information from such a long thread that was full of name calling.

I have tried to convince people to look at the cannabis info with an open mind. I hope that some have. I have provided you plenty of information to get started. If interested, continue the research. If not, don't.

Yeah, six pages and nothing hashed out (pun intended). What is your information going to reveal? It's the freaking internet. I can pull countless studies on anything out of thin air, too.

Bill Clinton is gay
Abe Lincoln, Richard Nixon and James Buchanon are cross dressers
Richard Gere and Gerbils
Sarah Palin and Rihanna are Illumanti
The Cupcake diet
Coca Cola 12oz bottle home abortion method
Beerball wears diapers
Marijuana is bad for you
Taco Bell is healthy
Jboyst knows what the !@#$ he's talking about

#40 Bob in Mich

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:17 PM

You make a fine point. You can't trust things you read on the web. Be careful. Check sources.

Seriously, I don't wish to argue. Look at the information, watch the video, or don't .

I sincerely believe the information on cannabis use as medicine can help many people. You don't. I'm OK with that. I knew I could never convince some people, no matter the evidence