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How good does EJ have to be?


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#1 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:13 PM

Some story lines get repeated so often they take on a life of their own, like the trade up for Sammy Watkins being a desperation move by Doug Whaley.  With camp upon us the EJ story line is getting delivered over and over; how "the entire season rides on EJ," or "the Bills go only as far an EJ takes us."  I have a different take.

The better the team is around EJ the less EJ has to do to win.

The other story lines are only true if EJ has to carry the Bills. But if Whaley built as deep and talented team as he thinks he has, EJ will not have to be the hero every Sunday.  In fact with a solid defense and consistent running game, EJ will barely have to worry about anything.

And if the run game is effective, it will only make finding open receivers that much easier.  Can EJ hit his receivers accurately?  That is to be seen, but a receiver like Watkins will make EJ seem more accurate.

PTR

#2 DanInUticaTampa

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:17 PM

If he gets us to the playoffs, that would set it up for the starter through his rookie contract at least. There is enough talent on this roster that if you put a top 20 QB on it, this is a playoff team. EJ doesn't have to be great, but he has to be significantly better than last year.

If we fail to make the playoffs this year, the whole blame will be put on him. And with ownership in question, a curveball might be thrown at this team, for better or worse

#3 YoloinOhio

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:20 PM

View PostPromoTheRobot, on 20 July 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Some story lines get repeated so often they take on a life of their own, like the trade up for Sammy Watkins being a desperation move by Doug Whaley.  With camp upon us the EJ story line is getting delivered over and over; how "the entire season rides on EJ," or "the Bills go only as far an EJ takes us."  I have a different take.

The better the team is around EJ the less EJ has to do to win.

The other story lines are only true if EJ has to carry the Bills. But if Whaley built as deep and talented team as he thinks he has, EJ will not have to be the hero every Sunday.  In fact with a solid defense and consistent running game, EJ will barely have to worry about anything.

And if the run game is effective, it will only make finding open receivers that much easier.  Can EJ hit his receivers accurately?  That is to be seen, but a receiver like Watkins will make EJ seem more accurate.

PTR
he needs to be what Alex smith was last yr for the Chefs. Not necessarily spectacular numbers, but efficient, clutch, and protect the ball.

#4 reddogblitz

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:22 PM

PTR, I believe you to be right on the money. It's not on EJ.  It's on the whole team and coaching staff.  If our D improves, our run game solid like last year, and all these new WRs play well, EJ will look a lot better.  Personally, I'm not worried about EJ.. I'm more worried about Marrone and Hackett.

#5 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:29 PM

View Postreddogblitz, on 20 July 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

PTR, I believe you to be right on the money. It's not on EJ.  It's on the whole team and coaching staff.  If our D improves, our run game solid like last year, and all these new WRs play well, EJ will look a lot better.  Personally, I'm not worried about EJ.. I'm more worried about Marrone and Hackett.

I agree with you on Marrone and Hackett.  They have to make it all work.

#6 Dean Cain

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:33 PM

EJ needs to have a better season then he did last year. Higher completion %, more TDs, more games played, would be a good start.

#7 Buftex

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 11:04 PM

I think he just needs to be consistently "decent", and throw in a few great moments from time to time...not unlike he was in about 7 of his 10 starts next season.  Protecting the ball is important, no doubt...but I think he was actually pretty decent in that area...IIRC, half of  his turnovers came in 2 games...

#8 Mark Vader

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 11:09 PM

EJ has to do better, but he doesn't have to have an all-pro year.

I believe that if he has an above average year, the Bills will make the playoffs.

I would also like to point out that while we are all keeping an eye on EJ, let's pay strict attention to Hackett as well. It's just as important for him to have a better year too.

#9 Bangarang

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:08 AM

EJ doesn't have to be great if our only goal is to make the playoffs. Our defense and running game could probably get us there with an efficient game manager.

However, I don't want just a game manager. If EJ is going to be our unquestioned starting QB for the next decade and make us a consistent playoff contender then he needs to be really good.

I'm not going to lower my expectations with this kid. I want this team to be a force in the NFL. People talk about EJ's potential and upside a lot and I'm going to hold him to a higher standard because of it. He either makes big strides this year or I'm going back into college QB watch mode for his replacement.

Edited by Bangarang, 21 July 2014 - 12:09 AM.


#10 Peace Frog

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:18 AM

And for the love of all that is rich in beta karotene, throw a deep ball once in a while, E.J.  That drove me nuts last season.

#11 reddogblitz

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:38 AM

View PostPeace Frog, on 21 July 2014 - 12:18 AM, said:

And for the love of all that is rich in beta karotene, throw a deep ball once in a while, E.J.  That drove me nuts last season.

I went to the Ravens and Jets games and he threw long passes for TDs in both of those games.  EJ dosen't throw the ball deep is another one of those TBD "truisms" like the OP is talking about IMHO.

#12 Peace Frog

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:58 AM

View Postreddogblitz, on 21 July 2014 - 12:38 AM, said:

I went to the Ravens and Jets games and he threw long passes for TDs in both of those games.  EJ dosen't throw the ball deep is another one of those TBD "truisms" like the OP is talking about IMHO.
Let me rephrase then:  I'd like EJ to throw the deep ball more often than he currently does.

#13 Mark Vader

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:02 AM

View PostPeace Frog, on 21 July 2014 - 12:18 AM, said:

And for the love of all that is rich in beta karotene, throw a deep ball once in a while, E.J.  That drove me nuts last season.
Not sure what you are getting at with this comment. EJ threw the ball deep a good amount of times.

It's true that he did not connect on all of them, and if that's your gripe, then you have a point. EJ needs to get better in accuracy on the deep passes.

#14 Hplarrm

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:10 AM

I think you are actually posing a chicken/egg quandary in that you must have a chicken in order tolay eggs, but you also needs eggs to hatch to become chickens.  Which comes first?

Its generally an insolvable problem if one is forced to reply using mere logic.  The game is played on the field and simply how this oddly shaped bounces is ultimately gonna determine whether EJ is a success or not.  He is good but not great is gonna betold.

My sense is that Manual is a good player but not great.  However, good will be more than enough if the TEAM plays well enough around him.

If CJ and Jax continue not only to be the productive runners they have been but actually elevate their production because of better OL play (I like the addition of 1st round level talents like Cujo and Seantral then EJ will have easier throws to make and he can make them and then be perceived as great.  If Watkins does succeed in getting the separation his talent seems to indicate, simply being a good but not great QB should be enuf for the Bills.

If instead we must rely on EJ being the next coming of Marino or the next Peyton Manning then forgit about it.  Ironically even were to be as good as Manning he would only have 1 SB to his name or if he is Marion he easily could have 1.  

The team comes first in my mind and I hope they make EJ great.

#15 Peace Frog

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:22 AM

View PostMark Vader, on 21 July 2014 - 01:02 AM, said:

Not sure what you are getting at with this comment. EJ threw the ball deep a good amount of times.

It's true that he did not connect on all of them, and if that's your gripe, then you have a point. EJ needs to get better in accuracy on the deep passes.

http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel
   BY PASS PLAY CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD Pass Thrown Behind Line of Scrimmage 43 53 187 81.1 3.53 26 1 1 0 79.8 0 0 0.0 0 0 Pass Thrown 1-10 yds 103 163 990 63.2 6.07 45 4 4 0 78.0 0 0 0.0 0 0 Pass Thrown 11-20 yds 25 54 516 46.3 9.56 33 1 2 0 71.2 0 0 0.0 0 0 Pass Thrown 21-30 yds 6 19 154 31.6 8.11 34 3 1 0 79.8 0 0 0.0 0 0 Pass Thrown 31-40 yds 2 9 83 22.2 9.22 43 1 0 0 102.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 Pass Thrown 41+ yds 1 5 42 20.0 8.40 42 1 1 0 62.1 0 0 0.0 0 0

Edited by Peace Frog, 21 July 2014 - 04:27 AM.


#16 Dorkington

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 05:01 AM

I don't think the Bills make the playoffs unless he is a top 15 QB.

#17 Dragonborn10

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 05:32 AM

He needs to be as good or better than Andy Dalton, Alex Smith, Vick/Smith, and the Charger's offensive line/defense.  

The Bengals, Chargers, Chiefs and Jets are the main competition for the wild card spots.  Yes I think the Patriots will win the division though if the Bills play well it could be up for grabs well into December.  The Jets defense may be top 5 by the end of the year if Milliner develops and if Smith develops or Vick bails them out they will be in the playoffs. The Bengals defense is very good, their TE's and AJ Green are amazing.  Philip Rivers was a top 8 QB last year and will be again this year.  Fortunately their O-line is still suspect and the defense is putrid.  

What I am saying is for the Bills to make the playoffs EJ needs to be better than one of these situations.  It is all on him because the defense isn't good enough.  I think the Bills best chance is the Chiefs fall apart and the Jets QB/WR situation is a disaster.

#18 stony

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:16 AM

View PostDorkington, on 21 July 2014 - 05:01 AM, said:

I don't think the Bills make the playoffs unless he is a top 15 QB.

Probably a true statement. I was thinking he needs to go 20 and 10.

It'll be interesting.

#19 AlwaysBilleve

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:26 AM

20 passes a game @ 60% completion percentage, move the chains, not turn the ball over...aka manage the game.

I believe he has the potential to be much better but this is the floor for our success

#20 BillsFan-4-Ever

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:55 AM

Good solid consistent playing.  325 passing ypg. 2 to 1 TD / INT (or better) ratio and 60% passing