Jump to content


This EJ Scouting Report Proven Deadly Accurate So Far


  • Please log in to reply
119 replies to this topic

#1 b2henning

b2henning

    Probation

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:10 PM

It's interesting to go back and look at the following pre-draft scouting report on E.J. Manuel written by two reporters who cover Florida State.  Many, if not all of their concerns about EJ have come to fruition with the Bills.  Bear in mind this piece was written by a couple of guys that like and cover FSU football,watched every snap multiple times and respect Manuel as a person and player... they are not, as much as I hate the term, "EJ haters"  The link to the report follows.  Enjoy.

http://www.tomahawkn...l-florida-state

#2 Coach Tuesday

Coach Tuesday

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,117 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:13 PM

Ugh.

#3 AlwaysBilleve

AlwaysBilleve

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 497 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:31 PM

Wow. That's is some great evaluation. Like you said, spot on. Let's hope it changes this season.

#4 YoloinOhio

YoloinOhio

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,529 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:43 PM

Nice report for a non NFL scout.

#5 Dean Cain

Dean Cain

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,310 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:49 PM

The second reviewer was much more descriptive.

The parts that concerned me in 2013 & today were slow reads, shuts down when taking hard coaching, doesn't have natural leadership skills.

#6 uncle flap

uncle flap

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,600 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:56 PM

Ha just saw this on twitter and it belongs here- wouldn't be surprised if one of the authors drew this :lol:
Posted Image

#7 YoloinOhio

YoloinOhio

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,529 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:16 PM

Bahahahaha

#8 NoSaint

NoSaint

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,920 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:23 PM

It underscores what we all know (but sometimes take for granted) -- he was the guy with all the measureables but was considered a project, not a day 1 starter.... Yet alone a day 1 starter that missed half of camp, and then regular season reps too

#9 maddenboy

maddenboy

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 880 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:23 PM

wow.  Very well written.

I really hope a lot of this isnt true.  But some is definitely accurate, such as:

"Manuel also struggles to throw with anticipation. The next time he bangs the post route before the receiver breaks open will be the first. He is very much a rudimentary "see it, throw it" player. That doesn't work well in the NFL. In the league, certain routes demand that the ball comes out before the receiver is open or out of his break."

Ugh.

Edited by maddenboy, 26 July 2014 - 09:24 PM.


#10 YoloinOhio

YoloinOhio

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,529 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:26 PM

View Postmaddenboy, on 26 July 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

wow.  Very well written.

I really hope a lot of this isnt true.  But some is definitely accurate, such as:

"Manuel also struggles to throw with anticipation. The next time he bangs the post route before the receiver breaks open will be the first. He is very much a rudimentary "see it, throw it" player. That doesn't work well in the NFL. In the league, certain routes demand that the ball comes out before the receiver is open or out of his break."

Ugh.
right. But to be fair, this is why he and many other QBs are projects and few are Andrew Luck. It is the nature of college offenses.

#11 maddenboy

maddenboy

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 880 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:29 PM

but did you read the article?  We dont know if its the nature of FSU's offense.

They stressed that its not clear whether the offense was too simple for NFL translation, or whether it was, instead, "dumbed down" for EJ.

[as an aside, w/r/t dumbed-down offense, I remember maybe 10 yrs ago during a probowl qb competition they asked the QBs what their favorite play was.
Aikman (or somebody):  "J right slot double trips X fly right Z read"
Manning (or somebody):  "33 jet flat Z waggle slide X post"
Aaron Brooks of the Saints (notoriously rumored to be not too bright):  "XY go."   Yes, that was the entire name of his favorite play.  XY go.]

Edited by maddenboy, 26 July 2014 - 09:34 PM.


#12 YoloinOhio

YoloinOhio

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,529 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:33 PM

View Postmaddenboy, on 26 July 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

but did you read the article?  We dont know if its the nature of FSU's offense.

They stressed that its not clear whether the offense was too simple for NFL translation, or whether it was, instead, "dumbed down" for EJ.
not even the nfl guys know that for sure. They shuffled offensive coaches between his sr yr and Winston's RS frosh yr. they had 6 new offensive coaches. But I do know that EJ's intelligence in film study and play book was high level in combine interviews.

#13 maddenboy

maddenboy

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 880 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:42 PM

Uh, i'll take that as a "no" to my question.

It took about 10 minutes, but its really one of the best articles i've read in a while.  Good stuff, good food for thought.

Edited by maddenboy, 26 July 2014 - 09:43 PM.


#14 DC Tom

DC Tom

    Also sniping at retards from the balcony

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 45,369 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:49 PM

View Postmaddenboy, on 26 July 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

but did you read the article?  We dont know if its the nature of FSU's offense.

They stressed that its not clear whether the offense was too simple for NFL translation, or whether it was, instead, "dumbed down" for EJ.

[as an aside, w/r/t dumbed-down offense, I remember maybe 10 yrs ago during a probowl qb competition they asked the QBs what their favorite play was.
Aikman (or somebody):  "J right slot double trips X fly right Z read"
Manning (or somebody):  "33 jet flat Z waggle slide X post"
Aaron Brooks of the Saints (notoriously rumored to be not too bright):  "XY go."   Yes, that was the entire name of his favorite play.  XY go.]

Actually, Manning would be "33 jet flat Z waggle slide X post OMAHA!"

With regards to the article, one key point was

Quote

If EJ is thinking about footwork, then mechanics go to hell. If he starts to think about mechanics and footwork, then he forgets to make a necessary pass protection check, etc. etc.

Well...yeah, but the bigger problem there would be that those mechanics should not be things you think about.  That's what practice is for - you drill and drill and drill until the mechanics, footwork, throwing motion, etc., become second nature and embedded in "muscle memory" and you don't have to expend any conscious thought on them.  That's what differentiates professionals from everyone else.

The good news is that's fixable - not easily, but it is fixable.  Bad news is it takes time - time that Manuel is not going to be given.

#15 Buftex

Buftex

    JIM KELLY: the reason for the seasons!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,569 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:02 PM

View PostDC Tom, on 26 July 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:






The good news is that's fixable - not easily, but it is fixable.  Bad news is it takes time - time that Manuel is not going to be given.
  That does not fit the prevailing attitude on OBD...EJ is a  bust, it has been determined....

View PostDean Cain, on 26 July 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

The second reviewer was much more descriptive.

The parts that concerned me in 2013 & today were slow reads, shuts down when taking hard coaching, doesn't have natural leadership skills.
  Two things that are in stark contrast to any other evaluation I have read of Manuel.  In fact, both of those things have been sited, repeatedly as strengths.  I do fear, however, now that the masses have spoken, and are getting increasingly louder, Manuel may buckle.  I have already sensed a defensiveness in his dealing with the media (local meadia anyways) that wasn't there a year ago.  He can't live up to the unrealistic expectations that many have for him...and we are an increasingly impatient (and miserable) lot, to try to please.  Not saying much, I know, but I think he has flashed more potential than any QB we have had since Bledsoes first season...but we are nailing him to the tree already...

#16 BillyBaroo

BillyBaroo

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:14 PM

After reading the article I still think EJ isn't even close to bust...I would like to read this same kind of evaluation of Brady, Kelly, Phil Simms or anyone else coming out of college.

I continue to remind myself that almost no QB does well in his "Sophomore season" and that we do need to have patience with EJ.  He has the physical tools period, the mindset for sure, and I think all QBs improve some of their weaknesses with a couple of years experience. Remember that Kelly had time to iron out his problems in the USuckFL and I remember there was a QB named Randall Cunningham with long legs who seemed like he loped down the field as well.

#17 dave mcbride

dave mcbride

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,817 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:25 PM

View Postb2henning, on 26 July 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

It's interesting to go back and look at the following pre-draft scouting report on E.J. Manuel written by two reporters who cover Florida State.  Many, if not all of their concerns about EJ have come to fruition with the Bills.  Bear in mind this piece was written by a couple of guys that like and cover FSU football,watched every snap multiple times and respect Manuel as a person and player... they are not, as much as I hate the term, "EJ haters"  The link to the report follows.  Enjoy.

http://www.tomahawkn...l-florida-state
Good read; thanks for posting. I found it depressing because I have a bad hunch that this might be accurate. Hope I'm wrong.

#18 Madbillsfan

Madbillsfan

    Probation

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 21 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:37 PM

If Kolbcussion didn't get hurt he would have sat a few weeks but hindsight is 20/20

#19 Rico

Rico

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,386 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:02 PM

View Postb2henning, on 26 July 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

It's interesting to go back and look at the following pre-draft scouting report on E.J. Manuel written by two reporters who cover Florida State.  Many, if not all of their concerns about EJ have come to fruition with the Bills.  Bear in mind this piece was written by a couple of guys that like and cover FSU football,watched every snap multiple times and respect Manuel as a person and player... they are not, as much as I hate the term, "EJ haters"  The link to the report follows.  Enjoy.

http://www.tomahawkn...l-florida-state
Enjoy?!?!? :lol:  WTF

I did NOT enjoy reading that.

#20 Hplarrm

Hplarrm

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,156 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:52 AM

The article (if true- which maybe it is and maybe  its not) it says a couple of things:

1. ED's future and immediate past development depend a lot on the Bills O and QB coach.  EJ sounds extremely teachable almost malleable (almost anti-Jim Kelly like who clearly had his own mind about him such that it cost him a couple of Bills years as he went CFL instead of making a deal with the Bills).  If the Bills brain trust makes a good assessment of him and trains him the right direction he has a very good skillset.

2. The Bills seem to be making choices consistent with this article.]

A.  The article talks about the importance of Manual having goo d players around him to make him productive.  Well this is pretty consistent with the team lining him up like last year with one of the leading RB duos in the league last year, and in this year augmenting that with a Watkins who already shows signs of being a dynamic playmaker who specializes in getting quick separation (which eases decision making and early throws for Manual.  In addition, they brought in as # 3 Williams who shows signs of also being a 1st round talent whose career went awry with possible hopes of rebirth in Buffalo.

Add to that an OL which potentially will be greatly reinforced with Cujo in the 2nd (rated to be a 1st round talent by some who appears to have a good chance of starting) and Henderson in the 7th (thought to be a 1st rd talent by some- but with an 8th rd head so unlikely  to pierce the line-up but a low risk potential high benefit pick.

EJ will have offensive talent around him.

2.  This analysis seems to feel EJ really over thinks thing and his physical talents (with honing of some of his fundamentals by coaches) should be allowed to lead.  The  attempt to install a very fast paced Bills O now makes more sense.

3. The injuries to Manual last year may actually be a blessing in disguise as the EJ habit had been to learn something, but then to see it go out the window as play resumed.  However, for perhaps the first time in his career due to injury Manual has adopted a schedule of trying stuff then the next plays get put off by his recurring injuries.  Again, if the Bills braintrust plays their cards right this may have been a chance to let Manual internalize these changes and be more consistent.  
We'll see but this article about the Bills prospects.