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Sorry, but I'm still going to miss Hogan


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#41 C.Biscuit97

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:35 AM

 
Hogan is no Edelman -- except perhaps in the douchebro category.


Edelman had a far worse start to his career than Hogan. He barely had as many years in his first 4 years as Hogan did.

I know this is this thing among some that once a guy leaves Buffalo, they become terrible. But Hogan is getting to play with the greatest qb ever. A qb who routinely turns nobody receivers into stars.

So yeah, I'm going to draft Hogan. The hate this guy gets here is laughable. He went from playing college lacrosse to get a good contract to catch footballs from Tom Brady. Dude is winning at life.

#42 Maury Ballstein

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:41 AM

Edelman had a far worse start to his career than Hogan. He barely had as many years in his first 4 years as Hogan did.
I know this is this thing among some that once a guy leaves Buffalo, they become terrible. But Hogan is getting to play with the greatest qb ever. A qb who routinely turns nobody receivers into stars.
So yeah, I'm going to draft Hogan. The hate this guy gets here is laughable. He went from playing college lacrosse to get a good contract to catch footballs from Tom Brady. Dude is winning at life.


If Edelman, Gronk, and Amendola get hurt you might score some points.

#43 ricojes

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:42 AM

Fantasy projections for Hogan.  IMO he's worth drafting in case JE gets hurt, otherwise he's a risky start, but probably will have a couple really nice stat games...

 

ESPN's fantasy value:ESPN Fantasy Projection: The Patriots badly needed to upgrade their talent at wide receiver, so they snatched Hogan away from the Bills with a three-year, $12 million contract. Hogan's hands don't always cooperate. He dropped 8.5 percent of his targets last season, which was the worst rate among the 85 wide receivers who saw at least 50 passes. Still, if Hogan earns an every-down role in the Patriots' offense, he'll be a lock for fantasy relevance. He is well worth the cost of a late-round pick.

 

Pro FB focus:

Since he plays a similar role to Edelman, it’s fair to think the Patriots brought him in to be Edelman insurance; the offense was woefully inefficient at times while Edelman was out of the lineup last season.

But Hogan could still see the field even if Edelman stays healthy. The Patriots got rid of Brandon LaFell after the 2015 season, and while they re-signed Keshawn Martin, he’s far from a lock in the lineup. And with Amendola’s status with the team still not set in stone, Hogan’s path to playing time could be traversable.

With that said, even if he does see the field a fair amount, he would be, at best, Tom Brady’s third option behind Edelman and Rob Gronkowski — and maybe even his fourth option if Dion Lewis or James White are heavily utilized again.

If Hogan is able to win a healthy amount of snaps with New England, he has flex potential in PPR leagues. But that’s the best case scenario.

The more likely scenario is that Hogan doesn’t see enough targets — at least consistently — to warrant immediate fantasy consideration. Knowing the Patriots, he could see 10 targets one week and just three over the next two weeks combined.

 

Rotoworld:

Chris Hogan caught 4-of-5 targets for 53 yards in Thursday's preseason game.

He also caught a two-point conversion. Hogan was New England's most targeted pass catcher while Week 1 starter Jimmy Garoppolo was in the game. Hogan could be an important chain mover on the boundary for the Pats, but in a crowded targets landscape, he's just a WR5 for fantasy purposes.


Edited by ricojes, 19 August 2016 - 09:43 AM.


#44 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:45 AM

FWIW, I am considering drafting Hogan late too. I think that he will have a pretty good year. The point that I was trying to make is that he isn't now a great player because he has Brady. He's the same average player with the perfect opportunity. I think that it is realistic that he has something like 60 catches, 800 yards and 6 TDs.



#45 The Frankish Reich

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:45 AM

Serious question: I've never met Hogan so I have no personal knowledge about how he interacts with people.  Are there verifiable stories about him being a total jackass?  I was no Hogan lover, but objectively it appears that he did a good job in his role as a 3rd receiver with the Bills, that he was clearly more responsible/committed than many of his teammates (just look at the suspensions, or the Sammy quotes), and that he pulled off something really difficult: switching sports after effectively finishing college, making a couple NFL rosters, and earning himself great money with a winning team. And say what we want about the Pats, we should all agree that one thing they're demonstrably good at is talent evaluation, and they think Hogan was worth giving serious (not huge) money to.

 

Why the hatred?  Is it a race thing - the idea that he made the team out of some kind of positive stereotype that the white guy is a "hard worker"?  Or is it just that he decided to leave the Bills, which would be a weird reason to hate him because, after all, people didn't think he was a productive player so they should be glad he's gone.  I don't understand why an ordinary, moderately effective receiver is the object of this level of scorn.  Answers?



#46 Nanker

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:49 AM

I miss Hogan too. In fact I miss the entire show. Colonel Klink, Sergeant Schultz, and all the boys. It was quite entertaining, unlike this thread.

Edited by Nanker, 19 August 2016 - 09:51 AM.


#47 jmcraig44

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:50 AM

It means Judge Advocate General and makes no sense at all when talking about Hogan.

JAG = Just a Guy.   Geez.. 



#48 YoloinOhio

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:50 AM

Preseason Hogan threads on TSW now that he's a Patriot > Regular season Hogan TDs if he was a still a Bill

#49 NoSaint

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:50 AM

It's the same fear that I had about Scott Chandler becoming a Pro Bowler with Brady as his QB. Instead had had 23 more catches and 259 more yards than I did. He was the same bum that we had just in a different uniform. Fortunately for the Pats they didn't need to run him out there for every snap.

That is the point though. He gets receptions because the defense lets him catch balls. I looked at it 2 years ago and when Hogan and Chandler combined for 10 catches the Bills were like 1-7. Their only win was against the Vikings and it may have been the worst game that the team played all year.
 
Defenses can't take away everything so they try to stop the people that can hurt them the most. No one ever tried to take away Hogan (or Woods for that matter). If they are getting the ball instead of the playmakers the Bills are in trouble.
 
I am not defending Goodwin either (and I have for a few years). He just cant stay healthy. He can strike fear into a defense though. You have to keep a safety over the top or get burned because there isn't a guy in the league that can run with him. He opens the running game and frees Sammy (at least a little) and Clay. He has a lot of value for that reason and isn't easy to replace. The only question is can he stay on the field to do that? At this point I am hopeful but not holding my breath.


right, if the bills trotted out me, you, sammy, mccoy and clay --- and you and i got 50 catches, the team would be in a TERRIBLE situation. odds are we would never score, move the chains at a far lower rate, etc....

chandler and hogan are obviously less of a deficit than you and i would be, but i think fans often mistake depth volume for depth skill. a lot of volume for a mediocre player is not a sign of success at all.

we will see if hogan proves to be that type of player, like chandler did.

#50 dollars 2 donuts

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:53 AM

 

Hogan is no Edelman -- except perhaps in the douchebro category.

 

 

 

Not I. For as much as I hate Edelman, he's always been a threat. Plays with way more passion and speed than Hogan.

 

 

Except for when Edelman caught 69 passes for 4 TDs in 4 years, from 2009-2012.

 

Hogan caught 87, for 6 TDs in 3 years with the Bills with a different QB each year.



#51 DallasBillsFan1

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:56 AM

He will be the next Wes Welker in the Pats offense.



#52 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:57 AM

Serious question: I've never met Hogan so I have no personal knowledge about how he interacts with people.  Are there verifiable stories about him being a total jackass?  I was no Hogan lover, but objectively it appears that he did a good job in his role as a 3rd receiver with the Bills, that he was clearly more responsible/committed than many of his teammates (just look at the suspensions, or the Sammy quotes), and that he pulled off something really difficult: switching sports after effectively finishing college, making a couple NFL rosters, and earning himself great money with a winning team. And say what we want about the Pats, we should all agree that one thing they're demonstrably good at is talent evaluation, and they think Hogan was worth giving serious (not huge) money to.

 

Why the hatred?  Is it a race thing - the idea that he made the team out of some kind of positive stereotype that the white guy is a "hard worker"?  Or is it just that he decided to leave the Bills, which would be a weird reason to hate him because, after all, people didn't think he was a productive player so they should be glad he's gone.  I don't understand why an ordinary, moderately effective receiver is the object of this level of scorn.  Answers?

He's not a nice guy. You would think that someone that worked as hard as he did would be an appreciative, down to earth guy. He is an arrogant jerk from my limited interaction but it has been verified by people that spent a lot more time around him. I mentioned it earlier but if you remember Melvin Fowler he was the same way. They just don't treat people well.



#53 C.Biscuit97

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:58 AM

Preseason Hogan threads on TSW now that he's a Patriot > Regular season Hogan TDs if he was a still a Bill


Hogan had 1 less td than our projected #2 and #3 Wrs combined.

#54 Commonsense

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:00 AM

Yup. He got wide open deep against the Pats on MNF. Better throws, we might win that game. That's why the Pats signed him.

I am drafting him in fantasy this year. And if you want to win, you would do that same.


Chris Hogan in fantasy!? Bahahaha hope your playing in a 16 team league or something. Gronk, Edelman, Bennet, Lewis, and then Hogan. He will be the 5th passing option on the offense. Even if they go pass happy once Brady is back I think 600-700 yards with 5-6 touchdowns is his absolute ceiling.

They have Hogan playing outside most snaps, that means he may spend time vs. #1 corners unless those corners are moving inside to cover Edelman which is not the norm.

#55 The Frankish Reich

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:06 AM

He's not a nice guy. You would think that someone that worked as hard as he did would be an appreciative, down to earth guy. He is an arrogant jerk from my limited interaction but it has been verified by people that spent a lot more time around him. I mentioned it earlier but if you remember Melvin Fowler he was the same way. They just don't treat people well.

I get that.  And I have no reason to doubt you or the other posters here.  If so, it would justify the dislike - not as an on-field performer, but as person.  Kind of like Kyle Orton? I just haven't heard any actual stories of Hogan being an arrogant jerk, whereas we've certainly heard stories like that about other guys.  Examples?



#56 DrDareustein

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:10 AM

Serious question: I've never met Hogan so I have no personal knowledge about how he interacts with people.  Are there verifiable stories about him being a total jackass?  I was no Hogan lover, but objectively it appears that he did a good job in his role as a 3rd receiver with the Bills, that he was clearly more responsible/committed than many of his teammates (just look at the suspensions, or the Sammy quotes), and that he pulled off something really difficult: switching sports after effectively finishing college, making a couple NFL rosters, and earning himself great money with a winning team. And say what we want about the Pats, we should all agree that one thing they're demonstrably good at is talent evaluation, and they think Hogan was worth giving serious (not huge) money to.

 

Why the hatred?  Is it a race thing - the idea that he made the team out of some kind of positive stereotype that the white guy is a "hard worker"?  Or is it just that he decided to leave the Bills, which would be a weird reason to hate him because, after all, people didn't think he was a productive player so they should be glad he's gone.  I don't understand why an ordinary, moderately effective receiver is the object of this level of scorn.  Answers?

 

I dot have any personal feelings on Hogan, and I dont "hate" him as a player. I just think he's overrated because he's a feel-good story that people like to get behind. And I dont begrudge them that either. I just dont expect much from him, and dont think he's a top 3 WR. Nothing personal, just a player evaluation.

 

I do expect him to do very well with Brady this year, but Brady could make ME into a leading WR if he wanted to.



#57 The Frankish Reich

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:23 AM

 

I dot have any personal feelings on Hogan, and I dont "hate" him as a player. I just think he's overrated because he's a feel-good story that people like to get behind. And I dont begrudge them that either. I just dont expect much from him, and dont think he's a top 3 WR. Nothing personal, just a player evaluation.

 

I do expect him to do very well with Brady this year, but Brady could make ME into a leading WR if he wanted to.

My feelings exactly ... glad to know not everyone falls into the Hogan Mancrush vs. Hogan Hater categories.



#58 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:25 AM

I get that.  And I have no reason to doubt you or the other posters here.  If so, it would justify the dislike - not as an on-field performer, but as person.  Kind of like Kyle Orton? I just haven't heard any actual stories of Hogan being an arrogant jerk, whereas we've certainly heard stories like that about other guys.  Examples?

It sounds stupid but he was in Vegas one time (hammered and ripping cigarettes) at a table with a good friend of mine who also is a big Bills fan. Hogan was there on some bachelor party. My buddy said that he was disrespecting the waitress and the dealer, just being loud and belligerent. 

 

He asked Hogan for a picture after (he always gets pics with players) and Hogan told him to "eff off." Now this could have been "one bad night" but some people over at the Bills said that he was difficult to deal with. Some of those guys are really amenable to doing community type stuff and others are just difficult.  



#59 section122

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:27 AM

Yup. He got wide open deep against the Pats on MNF. Better throws, we might win that game. That's why the Pats signed him.

I am drafting him in fantasy this year. And if you want to win, you would do that same.

Yeahhhh I'll pass.  Commonsense put it well but he is behind Edleman, Gronk ,Bennett, and Lewis for sure.  He is likely the 5th target at best and is likely looking at Amendola like production.  If you were starting Amendola last year you were in trouble even with Edelman and Lewis hurt and Bennett not on the team.  He finished as WR 44.  So in a 10 man league starting 3 WRs he was on the outside looking in.  In a 12 team league starting 3 he is still on the outside looking in.

 

Drafting Hogan at the end of your draft is hoping for an injury.  I like to grab guys with potential to break out in that spot.  That isn't Hogan to me.

 

You're right.  I'll stand down.  Somehow I forgot that the Bills have won 27 of the last 30 games against NE.  Or that Danny Amendola has never put up double digits receptions against the Bills.  Or that EJ/Kyle/Tyrod have been every bit as effective at getting the ball to Bills receivers as that guy in Foxboro, or that that guy in the hoodie never, ever goes out of his way to humiliate lesser opponents by doing things like, oh, I don't know, featuring a player who used to play for the other guys ...

 

The Pats being good doesn't make them foolproof personnel wise.  In fact their drafts have not been very good and there FA signings as well.  They are very good at the QB spot.  That may help Hogan put up slightly better numbers but it doesn't change who the player is.  They tried to force a td to Chandler last year and it didn't work.  IMO Amendola is a better player than Hogan and showed as much before going to NE. 

Edelman had a far worse start to his career than Hogan. He barely had as many years in his first 4 years as Hogan did.

I know this is this thing among some that once a guy leaves Buffalo, they become terrible. But Hogan is getting to play with the greatest qb ever. A qb who routinely turns nobody receivers into stars.

So yeah, I'm going to draft Hogan. The hate this guy gets here is laughable. He went from playing college lacrosse to get a good contract to catch footballs from Tom Brady. Dude is winning at life.

Edelman wasn't used much as a receiver his first few years in the league so it isn't quite a fair comparison.  Add in that the talent was better in front of him and it isn't hard to see why he didn't put up the same numbers as Hogan.  Dude is certainly winning at life and ended up in a great situation for a receiver.  I think you are projecting the opposite of the bolded.  There is also the thought that just because a guy leaves he is better than he was here.  Wasn;t the case with Spiller (Peyton will know how to use him narrative) or Chandler (now he will star with Brady narrative).



#60 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:36 AM

Yeahhhh I'll pass.  Commonsense put it well but he is behind Edleman, Gronk ,Bennett, and Lewis for sure.  He is likely the 5th target at best and is likely looking at Amendola like production.  If you were starting Amendola last year you were in trouble even with Edelman and Lewis hurt and Bennett not on the team.  He finished as WR 44.  So in a 10 man league starting 3 WRs he was on the outside looking in.  In a 12 team league starting 3 he is still on the outside looking in.

 

Drafting Hogan at the end of your draft is hoping for an injury.  I like to grab guys with potential to break out in that spot.  That isn't Hogan to me.

 

 

The Pats being good doesn't make them foolproof personnel wise.  In fact their drafts have not been very good and there FA signings as well.  They are very good at the QB spot.  That may help Hogan put up slightly better numbers but it doesn't change who the player is.  They tried to force a td to Chandler last year and it didn't work.  IMO Amendola is a better player than Hogan and showed as much before going to NE. 

Edelman wasn't used much as a receiver his first few years in the league so it isn't quite a fair comparison.  Add in that the talent was better in front of him and it isn't hard to see why he didn't put up the same numbers as Hogan.  Dude is certainly winning at life and ended up in a great situation for a receiver.  I think you are projecting the opposite of the bolded.  There is also the thought that just because a guy leaves he is better than he was here.  Wasn;t the case with Spiller (Peyton will know how to use him narrative) or Chandler (now he will star with Brady narrative).

I was (and still am in some ways) bullish on this. I was 100% wrong last year. Spiller though is a little different in that he showed flashes of greatness. Chandler nor Hogan never showed flashes of greatness (and they weren't top 10 picks either). I thought that Payton would get the most out of CJ's unique skill set. He didn't get much of anything out of him.