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#1661 JohnC

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Posted Yesterday, 03:53 PM

 

Except everything you just said completely ignores the context of the reality of what really happened.

 

1.  KC - They are deep on both sides of the ball.  They have the luxury of being a contending team already and can make a move like this and still be a real threat.  They didn't take Mahomes to start this year, they took him because they can afford for him to sit a year or two while this talented roster of theirs competes.  One of the few teams who could afford to do this with picks.  On the other hand SIX teams who desperately need a QB, well 5 who are currently desperate (Cle, Chi, SF, Jax, and Jets) and 1 in need of an heir apaprent (SD) urgently ALL passed on him which says A LOT more than KC moving up to pick him.  Guess what, Denver traded up to get Tebow...didnt make it a good move either after everyone else passed on him and they traded up to take a 2nd or 3rd round prospect at best in the first.  KC just did the same thing.  Now Mahomes may go on to have a better or worse career, only time will tell...but geezus, this flawed logic that Mahomes is kind of demigod now cuz KC traded up for him is absurd.  The fact 6 of the first 9 teams drafting ahead of KC all needed a QB really bad and yet chose to pass on him tells me more about the type of prospect he is (RISKY) over the fact KC trading up does.

 

2.  Houston - This is a team that was desperate for a QB and once the top 2 were gone had to do something to get a QB.  They have no one after screwing up and giving Brock a huge contract he didn't earn and then paying a hefty 2nd round pick to get rid of him.  Their ONLY choice was to trade up and get one and were 100% forced to do so after Romo retired who they were banking on bringing in.  Those 6 teams who really needed a QB in the top 9 picks also passed on Watson too.  Again, doesn't mean Watson will be a bust, just means there was more risk associated with him then QB needy teams were comfortable with.  But Houston, who has a great roster and one MASSIVE hole at QB and no 2nd round pick this year had to do something.

 

So please, lets not over exaggerate the situation here by ignoring all the reality and context about what really went down.  

You have either distorted or misunderstand what I have been saying on this qb issue for months. Let's stop with this false premise that the qb we select has to immediately start. That has never been my claim. My consistent position regarding this qb crop, and almost all qb crops, is that they shouldn't be starting right out of the gate. Buffalo is in a good situation for adding a quality prospect with TT as a bridge qb. That's what TT is, nothing more. But that isn't a bad thing. He is serviceable and adequate enough to buy time for the younger player to learn and earn his way into the lineup. 

 

There is a context that you and others seem oblivious of. The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb in more than two consecutive decades. It's not surprising that the team's wretched record has directly tracked our deplorable qb situation. Your recommendation to continue slumbering through the years and wait for the perfect situation that never comes is an approach that has been scrupulously followed by this flaccid organization. What has it got us? An ignominious non-playoff streak! 

 

Over the years the Bills have had more than a few opportunities to select credible qb prospects who could have changed the trajectory of this dead-lining franchise. Instead of vacillating and dithering don't you think it would make more sense to demonstrate more urgency and aggressiveness in actually addressing the issue?

 

The Bills were in a good position to take a calculated risk in  selecting either Mahommes or Watson. They did what they usually did: They passed on the opportunity for others teams to seize on. You make think that is a smart way to go but not I. It was dumb! 



#1662 GunnerBill

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Posted Yesterday, 04:58 PM

 

Except everything you just said completely ignores the context of the reality of what really happened.  

 

Let me tell you what "really happened."  What really happened is the NFL too your "this Quarterback class is 2013 all over again" narrative and wiped its collective backside on it.  That is what really happened.  The Quarterbacks in this class were not slam dunks, but there are guys with franchise potential. 

 

I told you months ago that a minimum of two and likely three would be first round picks. 

I told you months ago that the first Quarterback off the board would be top 5.

I told you months ago that the choice to be that first Quarterback was down to Trubisky or Deshaun Watson at a time when you were claiming some teams had Kizer as the guy a top of their board because Walter freaking Football thought so. 

 

You were taken for a ride by a selection of the media whose narrative on this class was way off base with what actual scouts, general managers and Head Coaches in the National Football League think.  Now trying to point out that Houston was backed into a desperate corner?  Poppycock.  Jay Cutler is a free agent, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a free agent, Colin Kaepernick is a free agent.... if these teams genuinely thought this class was no good there are guys out there who have been serviceable starters in this league that a Houston could have gone and got and plugged in with their great defense and excellent run game.  Chicago did go and get a serviceable bridge guy and still wanted to take a Quarterback out of this class rather than waiting to the mythical 2018 class.  Kansas City I will concede is a little different - they took a flier on a guy to develop - but they thought he was so rare a development prospect that they trade up to get him.  They don't think a Pat Mahomes is coming around again in the mythical 2018 class. 

 

The narrative of what we were supposed to think about the 2017 NFL Draft Quarterback class was exposed brutally last night.  3 taken in the top 12 picks - something that hasn't happened for FIVE years. 



#1663 jeffismagic

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Posted Yesterday, 05:04 PM

 

Let me tell you what "really happened."  What really happened is the NFL too your "this Quarterback class is 2013 all over again" narrative and wiped its collective backside on it.  That is what really happened.  The Quarterbacks in this class were not slam dunks, but there are guys with franchise potential. 

 

I told you months ago that a minimum of two and likely three would be first round picks. 

I told you months ago that the first Quarterback off the board would be top 5.

I told you months ago that the choice to be that first Quarterback was down to Trubisky or Deshaun Watson at a time when you were claiming some teams had Kizer as the guy a top of their board because Walter freaking Football thought so. 

 

You were taken for a ride by a selection of the media whose narrative on this class was way off base with what actual scouts, general managers and Head Coaches in the National Football League think.  Now trying to point out that Houston was backed into a desperate corner?  Poppycock.  Jay Cutler is a free agent, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a free agent, Colin Kaepernick is a free agent.... if these teams genuinely thought this class was no good there are guys out there who have been serviceable starters in this league that a Houston could have gone and got and plugged in with their great defense and excellent run game.  Chicago did go and get a serviceable bridge guy and still wanted to take a Quarterback out of this class rather than waiting to the mythical 2018 class.  Kansas City I will concede is a little different - they took a flier on a guy to develop - but they thought he was so rare a development prospect that they trade up to get him.  They don't think a Pat Mahomes is coming around again in the mythical 2018 class. 

 

The narrative of what we were supposed to think about the 2017 NFL Draft Quarterback class was exposed brutally last night.  3 taken in the top 12 picks - something that hasn't happened for FIVE years. 

 

Great post. The people who were pushing the bad class narrative now claim the NFL teams are wrong, not their crappy draft analysis or mock draft from February.



#1664 MOVALLEYRANDY

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Posted Yesterday, 05:05 PM

 

Let me tell you what "really happened."  What really happened is the NFL too your "this Quarterback class is 2013 all over again" narrative and wiped its collective backside on it.  That is what really happened.  The Quarterbacks in this class were not slam dunks, but there are guys with franchise potential. 

 

I told you months ago that a minimum of two and likely three would be first round picks. 

I told you months ago that the first Quarterback off the board would be top 5.

I told you months ago that the choice to be that first Quarterback was down to Trubisky or Deshaun Watson at a time when you were claiming some teams had Kizer as the guy a top of their board because Walter freaking Football thought so. 

 

You were taken for a ride by a selection of the media whose narrative on this class was way off base with what actual scouts, general managers and Head Coaches in the National Football League think.  Now trying to point out that Houston was backed into a desperate corner?  Poppycock.  Jay Cutler is a free agent, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a free agent, Colin Kaepernick is a free agent.... if these teams genuinely thought this class was no good there are guys out there who have been serviceable starters in this league that a Houston could have gone and got and plugged in with their great defense and excellent run game.  Chicago did go and get a serviceable bridge guy and still wanted to take a Quarterback out of this class rather than waiting to the mythical 2018 class.  Kansas City I will concede is a little different - they took a flier on a guy to develop - but they thought he was so rare a development prospect that they trade up to get him.  They don't think a Pat Mahomes is coming around again in the mythical 2018 class. 

 

The narrative of what we were supposed to think about the 2017 NFL Draft Quarterback class was exposed brutally last night.  3 taken in the top 12 picks - something that hasn't happened for FIVE years. 

You should write a "Tell-All" book



#1665 GunnerBill

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Posted Yesterday, 05:07 PM

 

Great post. The people who were pushing the bad class narrative now claim the NFL teams are wrong, not their crappy draft analysis or mock draft from February.

 

Andy Reid and Bill O'Brien or Walterfootball and Mel Kiper......... yea... I won't need to phone a friend on this one.


You should write a "Tell-All" book

 

I am enjoying my moment.  I don't care if it comes across as more than a little smug. :D   I took some heat here in January and February for saying this class did not suck. 



#1666 #BADOL

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Posted Yesterday, 05:30 PM

 

Let me tell you what "really happened."  What really happened is the NFL too your "this Quarterback class is 2013 all over again" narrative and wiped its collective backside on it.  That is what really happened.  The Quarterbacks in this class were not slam dunks, but there are guys with franchise potential. 

 

I told you months ago that a minimum of two and likely three would be first round picks. 

I told you months ago that the first Quarterback off the board would be top 5.

I told you months ago that the choice to be that first Quarterback was down to Trubisky or Deshaun Watson at a time when you were claiming some teams had Kizer as the guy a top of their board because Walter freaking Football thought so. 

 

You were taken for a ride by a selection of the media whose narrative on this class was way off base with what actual scouts, general managers and Head Coaches in the National Football League think.  Now trying to point out that Houston was backed into a desperate corner?  Poppycock.  Jay Cutler is a free agent, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a free agent, Colin Kaepernick is a free agent.... if these teams genuinely thought this class was no good there are guys out there who have been serviceable starters in this league that a Houston could have gone and got and plugged in with their great defense and excellent run game.  Chicago did go and get a serviceable bridge guy and still wanted to take a Quarterback out of this class rather than waiting to the mythical 2018 class.  Kansas City I will concede is a little different - they took a flier on a guy to develop - but they thought he was so rare a development prospect that they trade up to get him.  They don't think a Pat Mahomes is coming around again in the mythical 2018 class. 

 

The narrative of what we were supposed to think about the 2017 NFL Draft Quarterback class was exposed brutally last night.  3 taken in the top 12 picks - something that hasn't happened for FIVE years. 

 

 

There were entire drafts years ago where there wasn't a SINGLE QB who was as talented on-the-hoof as Mahomes/Watson/Trubisky/Kizer.......yeah, they are raw but that's the nature of the biz now and presumably that's the idea behind having a bridge QB.



#1667 Alphadawg7

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Posted Yesterday, 05:54 PM

 

Let me tell you what "really happened."  What really happened is the NFL too your "this Quarterback class is 2013 all over again" narrative and wiped its collective backside on it.  That is what really happened.  The Quarterbacks in this class were not slam dunks, but there are guys with franchise potential. 

 

I told you months ago that a minimum of two and likely three would be first round picks. 

I told you months ago that the first Quarterback off the board would be top 5.

I told you months ago that the choice to be that first Quarterback was down to Trubisky or Deshaun Watson at a time when you were claiming some teams had Kizer as the guy a top of their board because Walter freaking Football thought so. 

 

You were taken for a ride by a selection of the media whose narrative on this class was way off base with what actual scouts, general managers and Head Coaches in the National Football League think.  Now trying to point out that Houston was backed into a desperate corner?  Poppycock.  Jay Cutler is a free agent, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a free agent, Colin Kaepernick is a free agent.... if these teams genuinely thought this class was no good there are guys out there who have been serviceable starters in this league that a Houston could have gone and got and plugged in with their great defense and excellent run game.  Chicago did go and get a serviceable bridge guy and still wanted to take a Quarterback out of this class rather than waiting to the mythical 2018 class.  Kansas City I will concede is a little different - they took a flier on a guy to develop - but they thought he was so rare a development prospect that they trade up to get him.  They don't think a Pat Mahomes is coming around again in the mythical 2018 class. 

 

The narrative of what we were supposed to think about the 2017 NFL Draft Quarterback class was exposed brutally last night.  3 taken in the top 12 picks - something that hasn't happened for FIVE years. 

 

Dude, what are you even talking about?  I never said NO QB's would go in the top 10, so don't put words in my mouth I didn't say.  I have always said Trubisky would be the first QB taken and likely in the top 5 as I had him mocked at #2 overall for a long time to SF.  As we got closer, I moved Trubisky to either Bears or Jets as rumors came out about how much SF like Solomon.  

 

What I did say is that where this group of QB's will go is hard to predict and I have both said I wouldn't be surprised if none went top 10 and I also wouldn't be surprised if 3 went top 10 considering there 6 teams that really needed a QB and teams will ALWAYS gamble more on a QB than another position.

 

But...reality check to your rant.  FIVE teams passed on QB's that have a big need at QB in the top 9 picks.  Cleveland, SF, Jax, Jets, and SD.  Cleveland passed THREE times on a QB in the first round.  

 

And, most analysts of last nights draft feel Chicago and KC made a mistake.  Houston was a dead lock for a QB in the first round after jettisoning Brock to make room for Romo just to see Romo retire.  They are very much in the position we were in when we took EJ, we HAD TO get a QB in THAT draft because we did not have one at all.  And they did just that...go get a QB and I would have done the exact same thing as them.  

 

So you can sit back and say this somehow validates this draft class, but I see 5 teams who didn't feel any of these QB's were worth taking despite major needs at QB.  

 

If this class was so strong, those 5 teams don't skip on these QB's...and we probably wouldn't have either.  

 

PS:  NONE of this matters once the pads are on...I mean the best QB in this class may not have even been drafted yet for all we know.  But the fact 3 QB's went first round was mostly expected, just was hard to predict given the divide on the QB's.  And CLEARLY, teams were split on the QB class cuz teams passed, and one of them passed on a QB 3 times (Cleveland) while other GM's felt they needed to make a move.  

 

PPS:  I never said none of these guys could be franchise guys, I said I don't like any of them for the Bills at 10.  Any player from any round can become a franchise guy, but going into a draft you have to way risk, expectations, projections, etc...and with the 10th pick for the BILLS, the value was not there to take a QB.  And apparently the Bills agreed as not only did they trade out of the pick, it appears their intention had they stayed at the pick was to take Lattimore.  Also, SF, Jax, Jets, SD, and Browns all had similar opinions giving up the opportunity to take one of these guys for other higher graded prospects on their respected boards.


Edited by Alphadawg7, Yesterday, 06:02 PM.


#1668 GunnerBill

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Posted Yesterday, 06:09 PM

5 teams with major QB needs?  Have a word.  San Diego does not have a "major need".  Nor does Jacksonville.  That leaves you with San Francisco (starting a huge rebuild and likely to pick high again next year) and the Browns and the Jets - two teams with a record of being horrible Quarterback evaluators.  I have already blown your Houston narrative apart. 

 

And we are back on "most analysts" which is what you were saying about there being no round one quarterbacks.  I suspect you need to find new analysts to follow because it certainly isn't "most" and they are probably the same people doubling down on their own opinions. 



#1669 Alphadawg7

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Posted Yesterday, 06:45 PM

5 teams with major QB needs?  Have a word.  San Diego does not have a "major need".  Nor does Jacksonville.  That leaves you with San Francisco (starting a huge rebuild and likely to pick high again next year) and the Browns and the Jets - two teams with a record of being horrible Quarterback evaluators.  I have already blown your Houston narrative apart. 

 

And we are back on "most analysts" which is what you were saying about there being no round one quarterbacks.  I suspect you need to find new analysts to follow because it certainly isn't "most" and they are probably the same people doubling down on their own opinions. 

 

Rivers is at the end of his career and they need his heir apparent sooner rather than later.  Especially moving into a new city and new stadium in a city that hates them.  

 

And yes Jax does have a big need at QB...they have literally said they need to "rebuild" Bortles...you don't rebuild franchise guys.  He may put it together, but he was atrocious last year and regressed tremendously.  



#1670 2018 Our Year For Sure

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Posted Today, 01:25 AM

 
Let me tell you what "really happened."  What really happened is the NFL too your "this Quarterback class is 2013 all over again" narrative and wiped its collective backside on it.  That is what really happened.  The Quarterbacks in this class were not slam dunks, but there are guys with franchise potential. 
 
I told you months ago that a minimum of two and likely three would be first round picks. 
I told you months ago that the first Quarterback off the board would be top 5.
I told you months ago that the choice to be that first Quarterback was down to Trubisky or Deshaun Watson at a time when you were claiming some teams had Kizer as the guy a top of their board because Walter freaking Football thought so. 
 
You were taken for a ride by a selection of the media whose narrative on this class was way off base with what actual scouts, general managers and Head Coaches in the National Football League think.  Now trying to point out that Houston was backed into a desperate corner?  Poppycock.  Jay Cutler is a free agent, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a free agent, Colin Kaepernick is a free agent.... if these teams genuinely thought this class was no good there are guys out there who have been serviceable starters in this league that a Houston could have gone and got and plugged in with their great defense and excellent run game.  Chicago did go and get a serviceable bridge guy and still wanted to take a Quarterback out of this class rather than waiting to the mythical 2018 class.  Kansas City I will concede is a little different - they took a flier on a guy to develop - but they thought he was so rare a development prospect that they trade up to get him.  They don't think a Pat Mahomes is coming around again in the mythical 2018 class. 
 
The narrative of what we were supposed to think about the 2017 NFL Draft Quarterback class was exposed brutally last night.  3 taken in the top 12 picks - something that hasn't happened for FIVE years. 

We don't need no damn quarterback
We don't need no Pat Mahomes.
No swift progressions from the pocket
Hey! Tyrod!
Leave them DBs alone!