Jump to content


Photo

Did Anybody Hear Ross Tucker This Morning? ( Re Tyrod/Jones)


  • Please log in to reply
116 replies to this topic

#21 LA Grant

LA Grant

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 413 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:37 PM

It's real easy to point out the bad moves that Whaley  did.  What about all of the good he has done?  Drafting EJ wasn't a bad move at the time.  He was the top rated QB we needed one.  He didn't work out move on.  AT least we didn't give away 3 picks to get him.  We actually traded down and got Kiko who gave us Mccoy.

 

EJ was widely seen as a reach at the time and the only ones who considered him a top rated QB were the Bills. The best option of what was considered a weak QB draft (just like this year!) was supposedly Geno that year who also obviously hasn't worked out, although to be fair, he has looked better than EJ, if only marginally so.

 

To your point, I don't think EJ was necessarily a terrible pick given their circumstances at the time and drafting down was great. I think what's frustrating is how they doubled-down on EJ the next year by massively over-paying for Sammy Watkins in an effort to solidify and justify their QB. 



#22 Buffalo Boy

Buffalo Boy

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 331 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:39 PM

Regarding Bledsoe, he SUCKED his last year here. The receivers were relegated to running short dig routes because he couldn't hit anything else.
We are not going to the SB with TT and KW is never going to see a SB here and probably not a playoff.
I've watched McDermott here ( Carolina) since he started and I don't hate him but his defenses aren't all that.
This is a rebuilding year and I'd rather see a young QB learn on the fly than Orton or Taylor keep us mediocre.

Edited by Buffalo Boy, 13 February 2017 - 08:48 PM.


#23 Alphadawg7

Alphadawg7

    WATKINS!!!!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,226 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:39 PM

This team doesn't seem like it's been operating under a consistent blueprint under Whaley. Are we pushing for playoffs or are we rebuilding? Each year it seems to be a little of both and each year we end up somewhere in the middle.

 

If this comes to pass, then it makes all of Whaley's QB choices highly questionable. The only ones that have somewhat worked out are Kyle Orton and Tyrod Taylor and both were clearly Coach recruitments.

 

Kolb, EJ, Thad, Tuel, Cassel, Cardale — how much can you expect a team to win with a guy like that as your starter? 

 

I disagree with this statement...from what I have seen from Whaley he's been aggressively working to compete not rebuild.  Evidence is that is how active he has been in the trade markets and who he has targeted.  I think this board is the only place that muddies the water and skews perception.  This board at times seems to struggle to differentiate the words "building" and "rebuilding".  The difference is simple...all teams are always 'Building" their roster to be better than the year before.  A "rebuild" is essentially scrapping the plan and tearing it down to build it back up.  

 

What Whaley has been doing is constantly trying to build what was a weak roster overall when he took over into a talented roster than can compete.  He's made aggressive moves to get guys like Sammy and McCoy.  You don't make those trades in a rebuild.  He has cut underperforming vets like Mario to make room to resign our good FA's and worked to always retain our better players and focus on finding value in the FA market.  Everything he's done every year has been a clear indicator of building the roster up.  He has yet to just throw in the towel and focus on a rebuild.  

 

This offseason will be interesting though.  If he cuts TT and goes all in with a rookie or Cardale, then you can say Whaley has decided its time to retool and start rebuilding and going in a different direction.  However, if he keeps TT or cuts him because he trades for a guy like Romo, then his focus would still be on building as he would view someone like him as the piece to get us over the top.  



#24 LA Grant

LA Grant

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 413 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:42 PM

 

I disagree with this statement...from what I have seen from Whaley he's been aggressively working to compete not rebuild.  Evidence is that is how active he has been in the trade markets and who he has targeted.  I think this board is the only place that muddies the water and skews perception.  This board at times seems to struggle to differentiate the words "building" and "rebuilding".  The difference is simple...all teams are always 'Building" their roster to be better than the year before.  A "rebuild" is essentially scrapping the plan and tearing it down to build it back up.  

 

What Whaley has been doing is constantly trying to build what was a weak roster overall when he took over into a talented roster than can compete.  He's made aggressive moves to get guys like Sammy and McCoy.  You don't make those trades in a rebuild.  He has cut underperforming vets like Mario to make room to resign our good FA's and worked to always retain our better players and focus on finding value in the FA market.  Everything he's done every year has been a clear indicator of building the roster up.  He has yet to just throw in the towel and focus on a rebuild.  

 

This offseason will be interesting though.  If he cuts TT and goes all in with a rookie or Cardale, then you can say Whaley has decided its time to retool and start rebuilding and going in a different direction.  However, if he keeps TT or cuts him because he trades for a guy like Romo, then his focus would still be on building as he would view someone like him as the piece to get us over the top.  

 

Fair point and well reasoned. I think that's true. And to that point as well, it's tough to stay on a consistent blueprint when you're changing coaches and schemes every 2 years, which obviously isn't entirely (or even mostly) on Whaley.



#25 PromoTheRobot

PromoTheRobot

    See Bufffalo-inspired art at www.inkwellstudios.com

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 31,364 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:45 PM

I propose an Andy Benoit/Ross Tucker cage match. Vic Carucci as guest referee.

Edited by PromoTheRobot, 13 February 2017 - 06:45 PM.


#26 stony

stony

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,876 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:46 PM

I love how Hogan had a big game in the playoffs and it provided two weeks worth of narrative for the Patriot Way.  Whaley deserves flak for many things, letting go of a 38 catch WR isn't one of them. 


Edited by stony, 13 February 2017 - 06:46 PM.


#27 H2o

H2o

    2017 - Offseason is the Season of Hope

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,300 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:54 PM

Some people are just incessant TT fanboys. If we keep him it will be the same story for the next two years. Tyrod being inconsistent. Tyrod not seeing the field. Tyrod not throwing his guys open. Tyrod not working the middle of the field. Tyrod making a few flashy plays with his legs, but never being able to carry a team with his arm when needed. He is a middle of the pack guy. What better option do we have? I don't know, but I have seen enough of Tyrod to know what he is. You can't compare him to Bledsoe because Bledsoe was a legit Franchise QB. That move declaring Losman the starter was stupidity on a whole diffefent level.

#28 dneveu

dneveu

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,982 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:55 PM

I love how Hogan had a big game in the playoffs and it provided two weeks worth of narrative for the Patriot Way.  Whaley deserves flak for many things, letting go of a 38 catch WR isn't one of them.


we paid Percy Harding how much?! We signed two street free agents in hunter and Tate, and gave valuable snaps to some guy named Walt Powell... oh, and Goodwin still sucks... our hogan replacement was hurt all year in salas

But yeah, we don't need hogan... and Whaley deserves no blame for 7-9.

#29 mead107

mead107

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,134 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:57 PM

I think he just wants his name in the news.

#30 Kirby Jackson

Kirby Jackson

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,250 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:57 PM

Some people are just incessant TT fanboys. If we keep him it will be the same story for the next two years. Tyrod being inconsistent. Tyrod not seeing the field. Tyrod not throwing his guys open. Tyrod not working the middle of the field. Tyrod making a few flashy plays with his legs, but never being able to carry a team with his arm when needed. He is a middle of the pack guy. What better option do we have? I don't know, but I have seen enough of Tyrod to know what he is. You can't compare him to Bledsoe because Bledsoe was a legit Franchise QB. That move declaring Losman the starter was stupidity on a whole diffefent level.

Drew Bledsoe in 2004 was a worse player than Tyrod Taylor of 2016. I'm not sure that can even be debated. Bledsoe played a great 8 games in 2002 but really wasn't a great QB since like 1997.

#31 mead107

mead107

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,134 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:59 PM

Brady makes recovers look good. He wins with anyone

#32 dneveu

dneveu

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,982 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:00 PM

Drew Bledsoe in 2004 was a worse player than Tyrod Taylor of 2016. I'm not sure that can even be debated. Bledsoe played a great 8 games in 2002 but really wasn't a great QB since like 1997.


Tyrod was what... our #2 playmaker last year? If you want to upgrade, I'm all for it. But don't tell me starting cardale or some spread offense rookie is going to make the team better. It's fairly unlikely to happen... and you do risk losing a locker room when u cut a team leader over money.

#33 stony

stony

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,876 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:00 PM

we paid Percy Harding how much?! We signed two street free agents in hunter and Tate, and gave valuable snaps to some guy named Walt Powell... oh, and Goodwin still sucks... our hogan replacement was hurt all year in salas

But yeah, we don't need hogan... and Whaley deserves no blame for 7-9.

38 catches. 



#34 Kirby Jackson

Kirby Jackson

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,250 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:03 PM

Tyrod was what... our #2 playmaker last year? If you want to upgrade, I'm all for it. But don't tell me starting cardale or some spread offense rookie is going to make the team better. It's fairly unlikely to happen... and you do risk losing a locker room when u cut a team leader over money.

Yep

#35 dneveu

dneveu

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,982 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:05 PM

38 catches.


His replacement had 29... and is a track star/football player

We gave harvin and bush 3 million, and skimped out on a 2nd round tender for hogan. He walked and we had no viable replacement. Can that even be argued?

#36 BUFFALOBART

BUFFALOBART

    This space for rent

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,587 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:08 PM

 

 

Putting the low tender on him turned out to be a poor decision.........the Bills WR corps was an utter mess this season.......to the point where they had to beg Percy Harvin out of retirement.

 

Hogan is not exceptional but he is a nice downfield receiver........his skillset meshed well with Taylor's strength as a deep ball thrower.

 

They missed Hogan this season.....Watkins and Hogan had been the entire deep ball game in 2015 and not having those guys killed his ypa.......dropping from 8 to 6.9.

 

But I wasn't against passing on matching the Patriots long term contract once the horse had left the barn, so to speak.

Hogan could make the clutch play. We should've kept him.

In the Vikings game, (2014?) the Bills were trailing 16-10 with 25 seconds left on the clock, and Hogan makes a beautiful catch from an 28 yd. Orton pass that set up 1st., and goal at the 2. Orton, to Sammy on the final play. 2 yd. TD.

Bills win 17-16!



#37 stony

stony

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,876 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:10 PM

His replacement had 29... and is a track star/football player

We gave harvin and bush 3 million, and skimped out on a 2nd round tender for hogan. He walked and we had no viable replacement. Can that even be argued?

Horrible moves.  

 

But paying a border line WR3 $4 million on a team that is passing-challenged isn't smart business, either.  


Edited by stony, 13 February 2017 - 07:11 PM.


#38 #BADOL

#BADOL

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,328 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:13 PM

Drew Bledsoe in 2004 was a worse player than Tyrod Taylor of 2016. I'm not sure that can even be debated. Bledsoe played a great 8 games in 2002 but really wasn't a great QB since like 1997.

 

True, Tyrod is much better.

 

But the Cowboys and Bills basically flipped success levels in 2005 when Parcells took Bledsoe in and installed him as his QB in Dallas.

 

Tanking coming off of a 6-10 2004 season wasn't an option in Parcells mind......even though the Cowboys still weren't that talented.

 

Though Drew was just a 1.5 year bridge that success helped set the stage for Tony Romo and by 2007 they were the #1 seed in the NFC playoffs.

 

If the Bills had gone 9-7 again in 2005 perhaps Donahoe and Mularkey settle in and something gets established here.......perhaps nothing great but what followed really sent the organization into a tailspin.



#39 dneveu

dneveu

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,982 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:17 PM

Horrible moves.  
 
But paying a border line WR3 $4 million on a team that is passing-challenged isn't smart business, either.


1.6 vs. 2.5 million on the 2nd round tender... we were tight at the cap, but Goodwin sucked, and so does dez Lewis apparently

True, Tyrod is much better.
 
But the Cowboys and Bills basically flipped success levels in 2005 when Parcells took Bledsoe in and installed him as his QB in Dallas.
 
Tanking coming off of a 6-10 2004 season wasn't an option in Parcells mind......even though the Cowboys still weren't that talented.
 
Though Drew was just a 1.5 year bridge that success helped set the stage for Tony Romo and by 2007 they were the #1 seed in the NFC playoffs.
 
If the Bills had gone 9-7 again in 2005 perhaps Donahoe and Mularkey settle in and something gets established here.......perhaps nothing great but what followed really sent the organization into a tailspin.


We also jumped the gun a year... reached for losman instead of ya know... drafting Rodgers a year later.

#40 stony

stony

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,876 posts

Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:19 PM

1.6 vs. 2.5 million on the 2nd round tender... we were tight at the cap, but Goodwin sucked, and so does dez Lewis apparently

We also jumped the gun a year... reached for losman instead of ya know... drafting Rodgers a year later.

 

Like I said, really bad move.  Cap management (nor big-picture roster building) isn't one of DW's strengths.