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Patrick Mahomes at 10.


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#41 The_Dude

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:15 PM

He really does not have good mechanics. His footwork is among the worst I have ever evaluated.

I am happy to go against the TSW grain on Mahomes. The guy is a project Quarterback at the pro level. I wouldn't hate the Bills taking a shot (I never hate them taking a shot at a Quarterback) but if I was sitting in the draft room there is no way I would spend the 10th pick in the draft on him.

He may be that rare breed whose footwork is awful and thrives despite it. But let me just say this - there are no Big 12 defenses in the NFL.


So you hate his footwork. Ok. But what about his accuracy with that bad footwork?

#42 GunnerBill

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:18 PM

My scouting report on Mahomes is available on the forum: http://forums.twobil...the-2017-draft/

Edit: As I say... I wouldn't hate the Bills taking a shot, especially with a trade back first. But I honestly believe if the kid starts early in the NFL it will be messy.

Edited by GunnerBill, 14 February 2017 - 02:20 PM.


#43 Hyphe23

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:19 PM

This kid is unbelievable and definitely worth the #10 pick.

He's mobile.
He's well built.
He can make Aaron Rodgers type throws.

Right now people are getting mocked for suggesting that Mahomes is a first rounder...that will change as we get closer to the draft.

When you watch Mahomes it is impossible to not be impresssed. His naysayers argument is that he's a 'air raid system QB.' Again, so was Aaron Rodgers.

All I know is this--Mahomes makes unbelievable throws that put his receivers in great position for YAC. Mahomes routinely keeps eyes downfield when scrambling. Mahomes makes reads as is evident by his turning his head to the other side of the field when his 1 and 2 aren't open.

This guy is unbelievable. He's the total package. I promise, if you're not yet familiar with him you will be soon because this kid will 'shoot up draft boards' post combine.


Not at 10. He has potential but some of the throws I've seen him get away with at the college level wouldn't fly in the NFL. Ball placement was off a lot in what I have seen. Not to say he won't be good but I wouldn't take the chance at 10.

#44 GunnerBill

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:22 PM

I know a lot of folks here really like him and I get what excites them because that arm talent is special. I just don't see enough else to convince me I am looking at a top NFL Quarterback prospect.

#45 TheFunPolice

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:29 PM

FWIW I was listening to either NFL Radio on Sirius or WGR (not sure which because I flip back and forth a lot) and they had a guest on who called Mahomes the best QB in the draft.

 

At the time it meant little to me because I had never heard of him so I don't recall a lot of the details.



#46 HT02

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:30 PM

This kid is unbelievable and definitely worth the #10 pick.

He's mobile.
He's well built.
He can make Aaron Rodgers type throws.

Right now people are getting mocked for suggesting that Mahomes is a first rounder...that will change as we get closer to the draft.

When you watch Mahomes it is impossible to not be impresssed. His naysayers argument is that he's a 'air raid system QB.' Again, so was Aaron Rodgers.

All I know is this--Mahomes makes unbelievable throws that put his receivers in great position for YAC. Mahomes routinely keeps eyes downfield when scrambling. Mahomes makes reads as is evident by his turning his head to the other side of the field when his 1 and 2 aren't open.

This guy is unbelievable. He's the total package. I promise, if you're not yet familiar with him you will be soon because this kid will 'shoot up draft boards' post combine.

The Bills could do a lot worse and I wouldn't complain.  My first choice would be Trubisky after that I'd rather the Bills wait for the second round to draft a QB.  I think Mahomes and the rest of the lot have a lot of flaws and are all a crap shoot that would be better value with a second round pick.



#47 jeffismagic

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:35 PM

So you hate his footwork. Ok. But what about his accuracy with that bad footwork?

 

I am with you on this. Results over Process.

 

Jared Goff  had way better mechanics than Dak but these issues are not the end of the story. Mechanics worry me when they cause inaccuracy.



#48 FireChan

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:41 PM

 
Mike Mayock in 2014:
 
Quarterback 
1. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M 
2. Blake Bortles, Central Florida 
3. Derek Carr, Fresno State 
4. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois 
 
"The kind of projection I want to make with Manziel is Steve Young,'' Mayock says, referencing the Hall of Fame San Francisco 49ers quarterback.
 
http://www.nfl.com/n...-2014-nfl-draft


Objection. Manziel got lost in the sauce.

#49 GunnerBill

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:48 PM

 
I am with you on this. Results over Process.
 
Jared Goff  had way better mechanics than Dak but these issues are not the end of the story. Mechanics worry me when they cause inaccuracy.


Just before you dash off too far in that direction I will remind you I had a 2nd round grade on Dak higher than pretty much all of the big media guys. I didn't expect what he did as a rookie granted but I always felt Dak had a chance to be a franchise QB.

#50 jeffismagic

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:54 PM

Just before you dash off too far in that direction I will remind you I had a 2nd round grade on Dak higher than pretty much all of the big media guys. I didn't expect what he did as a rookie granted but I always felt Dak had a chance to be a franchise QB.

 

This isn't about your QB evaluations per se it's about the mechanics are everything crowd. They are very important but need to be taken in context of results.

 

Aaron Rodgers had scouts attack him for holding the ball wrong, etc. While many of these points are valid some fans take some of these mechanics criticisms too far.



#51 GunnerBill

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:56 PM

 
This isn't about your QB evaluations per se it's about the mechanics are everything crowd. They are very important but need to be taken in context of results.
 
Aaron Rodgers had scouts attack him for holding the ball wrong, etc. While many of these points are valid some fans take some of these mechanics criticisms too far.


I will be clear as well I don't worry about throwing mechanics so much. Footwork worries me much more.

#52 jeffismagic

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:58 PM

I will be clear as well I don't worry about throwing mechanics so much. Footwork worries me much more.

I have no bone to pick with you, your QB evaluations are great reads and nuanced. My issue is with the anti-Mahomes posters that go

 

"Back Foot, no way. Pass."



#53 Maddog69

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:59 PM

Bills cannot afford to overspend to build a champion. See Raiders who got Mack and Carr in the same draft. I love Mahomes but no need to throw away picks to do that or not get him for the right price. If some other teams overpay then you get value and get ready for an even more loaded 2018 QB draft.

Sure, then you'll bitch and moan when another team takes him ahead of our second pick and he turns out good. You and the rest of this board will kill the Bills for failing to pull the trigger on the next great QB. Now, I have no clue if this kid is any good, but if the Bills think he can be a quality starter, I am perfectly fine with them taking him at 10 because that is the pick they hold. Why gamble with a trade down and have another team steal your guy?

#54 Commonsense

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:04 PM

Sure, then you'll bitch and moan when another team takes him ahead of our second pick and he turns out good. You and the rest of this board will kill the Bills for failing to pull the trigger on the next great QB. Now, I have no clue if this kid is any good, but if the Bills think he can be a quality starter, I am perfectly fine with them taking him at 10 because that is the pick they hold. Why gamble with a trade down and have another team steal your guy?


Good post. Another Big Ben situation or Russel Wilson type scenario will burn them one last time. If you find a guy you love just take him at 10. Pick the right guy! For once!!!

#55 Hyphe23

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:24 PM

Good post. Another Big Ben situation or Russel Wilson type scenario will burn them one last time. If you find a guy you love just take him at 10. Pick the right guy! For once!!!


Or EJ Manuel situation. There are more cases where teams reach for a guy they want and say is their guy and he doesn't pan out than the other way around.

Is anyone worried about his release point? He's 6 foot 3 so it might not matter but it looks low and loopy. Wondering how that will work for intermediate routes over the middle in the NFL.

#56 Herb62

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:51 PM

Unless his stock sky rockets at draft time (and I hope it does) I'd trade down and grab him. QB so incredibly important it is worth the risk. It is not like in the past a 1st rounder missed you are set back five years. But, if you hit on one it makes your decade.

#57 GunnerBill

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:12 PM

Or EJ Manuel situation. There are more cases where teams reach for a guy they want and say is their guy and he doesn't pan out than the other way around.

Is anyone worried about his release point? He's 6 foot 3 so it might not matter but it looks low and loopy. Wondering how that will work for intermediate routes over the middle in the NFL.


I am not a fan of his release (as I explained in my evaluation) but releases in my experience have little baring on success at the next level.

#58 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:12 PM

Good post. Another Big Ben situation or Russel Wilson type scenario will burn them one last time. If you find a guy you love just take him at 10. Pick the right guy! For once!!!

The Big Ben and RW situations are quite different. The Bills tried to trade up for Ben but the Jags were afraid that they wouldn't get Reggie Williams if they went back. The Bills couldn't get the deal done but tried hard.

RW, they traded up for TJ freaking Graham. That was just a straight mistake.

#59 Commonsense

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:32 PM

The Big Ben and RW situations are quite different. The Bills tried to trade up for Ben but the Jags were afraid that they wouldn't get Reggie Williams if they went back. The Bills couldn't get the deal done but tried hard.

RW, they traded up for TJ freaking Graham. That was just a straight mistake.


In both situations the people in charge didn't get the right player in here. Whaley and his team have had plenty of time to address the QB position long term and have yet to be successful in doing so. If they like any of these guys I would hope they would stay put at 10 and make the selection. If they don't take a QB then they better get players in here that make an impact because the absence of a quality QB for another length of time is going to seal Whaley's fate.

#60 JohnC

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:45 PM

The Big Ben and RW situations are quite different. The Bills tried to trade up for Ben but the Jags were afraid that they wouldn't get Reggie Williams if they went back. The Bills couldn't get the deal done but tried hard.

RW, they traded up for TJ freaking Graham. That was just a straight mistake.

The Nix maneuver to trade up for Graham was emblematic of his philosophy of over emphasizing a physical profile at the expense of actual field play. Russell Wilson got a high grade on all the football skills associated with his position and from a character standpoint yet he was more enamored with this track receiver who didn't even have sterling stats at NCState. You can see how Country Buddy had to be tantalized over EJ's physical dimensions. (I'm not absolving Whaley in that fiasco selection because he certainly was involved in the qb ranking that draft year.)

 

Just think of all the good qb prospects that this organization has let pass by? With a stable qbing situation in place our perception of this franchise takes a dramatic change for the better. And without a doubt the record would also reflect it. It's just so infuriating!