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EJ Manuel signing with Raiders.


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#221 OldTimeAFLGuy

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:23 PM

 

Yes, and this should have been obvious to anyone who watched the game against Florida EJ's senior year.  Against the best defense he faced all year, he was virtually incapable of completing a forward pass despite all of FSU's talent on offense. 

 

.....the OBD QB talent evaluators of the 2013 class actually had Genome as their #1 choice until they flew down to interview and work him out...consensus on the plane ride home was, "um no thanks".....so the choice of EJ was the "lesser of two evils by default" and the dividends were......you know the rest..............



#222 offsides#76FredSmerlas

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:24 PM

Whaley and Nix didn't whiff. They had to take a QB. They all sucked. If they didn't take a shot on one of them that year the fans would of went nuts. Most QBs that get drafted even in the first round are busts. Do you hear all the fans even this year saying we need to draft a QB, but as soon as they do and it doesn't work out, they all scream for Whaley's head. Getting a QB worth a crap is like shooting darts blind folded. Most GM's get it wrong.

#223 OldTimeAFLGuy

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:43 PM

Whaley and Nix didn't whiff. They had to take a QB. They all sucked. If they didn't take a shot on one of them that year the fans would of went nuts. Most QBs that get drafted even in the first round are busts. Do you hear all the fans even this year saying we need to draft a QB, but as soon as they do and it doesn't work out, they all scream for Whaley's head. Getting a QB worth a crap is like shooting darts blind folded. Most GM's get it wrong.

...pretty much IT in a nutshell...........look at the 1st round QB Landscape over the last decade....other than Luck, Rodgers, Alex Smith and possibly Inconsistent Cam (if you want, throw in Flacco at #21 but...), the rest never would have been UDFA's yesteryear.....Ponder?...Gabbert?....Brady Quinn waiting in the Green Room?.....waffling about taking Jimmy Pickle or Bradley?....even Sancheese with 11 collegiate starts going at #5........



#224 Rico

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:48 PM

Whaley and Nix didn't whiff. They had to take a QB. They all sucked. If they didn't take a shot on one of them that year the fans would of went nuts. Most QBs that get drafted even in the first round are busts. Do you hear all the fans even this year saying we need to draft a QB, but as soon as they do and it doesn't work out, they all scream for Whaley's head. Getting a QB worth a crap is like shooting darts blind folded. Most GM's get it wrong.

Good GMs acknowledge their mistakes, cut their losses in a timely manner, and move on. Only a chump would' keep EJ on the team after London, let alone finish the 4th year of his contract.

#225 offsides#76FredSmerlas

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:01 PM

He played through his rookie contract. You have an issue with that? We paid nothing for him and gave him his rookie contract worth of time to get better. It didn't happen and they released him. I hope they do the same with Cardale. That's just being smart with your draft pick and your money situation.

Edited by offsides#76FredSmerlas, 20 March 2017 - 06:02 PM.


#226 Billy Zabka

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:12 PM

Whaley and Nix didn't whiff. They had to take a QB. They all sucked. If they didn't take a shot on one of them that year the fans would of went nuts. Most QBs that get drafted even in the first round are busts. Do you hear all the fans even this year saying we need to draft a QB, but as soon as they do and it doesn't work out, they all scream for Whaley's head. Getting a QB worth a crap is like shooting darts blind folded. Most GM's get it wrong.

 

Nix and Whaley did whiff on Manuel, there is no disputing this.  Lots of teams do whiff on QB's though, but Whaley compounded the mistake by being unable to admit his mistake early enough, doubling down on EJ with the Watkins trade, and trying to shove EJ down the throat of two seperate coaching staffs that didn't want him.  

 

I didn't want any of the QB's from that draft early on and many other fans didn't either.  If Nix/Whaley just came out and said that there were no QB's in this draft worthy of a high selection and that they would still be looking for that future franchise QB through free agency, trade, and next year's draft, I think the fans would have been fine with it.  Saying the fans forced them into this is a ridiculous excuse in a post full of them.



#227 jrober38

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:30 PM

Whaley and Nix didn't whiff. They had to take a QB. They all sucked. If they didn't take a shot on one of them that year the fans would of went nuts. Most QBs that get drafted even in the first round are busts. Do you hear all the fans even this year saying we need to draft a QB, but as soon as they do and it doesn't work out, they all scream for Whaley's head. Getting a QB worth a crap is like shooting darts blind folded. Most GM's get it wrong.

 

They didn't have to take a QB.

 

If was their choice to cut Fitzpatrick and leave us with a roster without any NFL calibre QBs. 



#228 Rico

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:40 PM

He played through his rookie contract. You have an issue with that? We paid nothing for him and gave him his rookie contract worth of time to get better. It didn't happen and they released him. I hope they do the same with Cardale. That's just being smart with your draft pick and your money situation.

There's nothing smart at all about keeping such a garbage QB on the team as backup, especially when considering TT's style of play (ie. possibility of season-ending injury). Belichick would've cut him the bye week after London.

Burning a 1st-round pick on a MAJOR project QB was not very smart for a team going 10+ years without the playoffs; absolutely ZERO sense of urgency at all. Other than that though, picking him wasn't nearly as big of a problem as shoving him down 2 coaching staff's throats after it was pretty clear they wanted nothing to do with him.

 
Nix and Whaley did whiff on Manuel, there is no disputing this.  Lots of teams do whiff on QB's though, but Whaley compounded the mistake by being unable to admit his mistake early enough, doubling down on EJ with the Watkins trade, and trying to shove EJ down the throat of two seperate coaching staffs that didn't want him.  
 
I didn't want any of the QB's from that draft early on and many other fans didn't either.  If Nix/Whaley just came out and said that there were no QB's in this draft worthy of a high selection and that they would still be looking for that future franchise QB through free agency, trade, and next year's draft, I think the fans would have been fine with it.  Saying the fans forced them into this is a ridiculous excuse in a post full of them.

Exactly.

#229 offsides#76FredSmerlas

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:54 PM

 
Nix and Whaley did whiff on Manuel, there is no disputing this.  Lots of teams do whiff on QB's though, but Whaley compounded the mistake by being unable to admit his mistake early enough, doubling down on EJ with the Watkins trade, and trying to shove EJ down the throat of two seperate coaching staffs that didn't want him.  
 
I didn't want any of the QB's from that draft early on and many other fans didn't either.  If Nix/Whaley just came out and said that there were no QB's in this draft worthy of a high selection and that they would still be looking for that future franchise QB through free agency, trade, and next year's draft, I think the fans would have been fine with it.  Saying the fans forced them into this is a ridiculous excuse in a post full of them.


I said the fans would have went nuts. I didn't say the fans forced their decisions, that would he rediculous.

#230 BUFFALOBART

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:00 PM

The years behind Flacco undoubtedly helped Tyrod but you can't ignore that EJ's best games all came in his first 8 or 9 starts.

I actually think with 4 years of info to look back on we can probably say EJ's best chance of making it was not to have the knee injury in Cleveland and to keep playing and building confidence before he started to look horrible. Not saying that would have worked but I think it would have been better than sitting him. Think the more he sat and "learned" the more confused he became.

The common thread between EJ, and Trent Edwards, is that once they got hurt, they played from a position of FEAR



#231 YoloinOhio

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:09 PM

@johnkryk
On #Raiders conf call I asked @EJManuel3 about being benched by #Bills in Year2. "I had to humble myself ... and just keep fighting." ...

"I'm just like wow. Sometimes young guys continue to get a chance to grow & fight thru those growing pains. I just wasn't afforded that opportunity"

"I knew i was the starter & I was assuming like, 'Hey, this is my team' ... and obviously the chair kind of got pulled up behind me."

#232 Steve Billieve

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:11 PM

There's nothing smart at all about keeping such a garbage QB on the team as backup, especially when considering TT's style of play (ie. possibility of season-ending injury). Belichick would've cut him the bye week after London.

Burning a 1st-round pick on a MAJOR project QB was not very smart for a team going 10+ years without the playoffs; absolutely ZERO sense of urgency at all. Other than that though, picking him wasn't nearly as big of a problem as shoving him down 2 coaching staff's throats after it was pretty clear they wanted nothing to do with him.
Exactly.

 

Wasn't his contract completely guaranteed?  Why would you cut him then?



#233 Rico

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:19 PM

 

Wasn't his contract completely guaranteed?  Why would you cut him then?

To get him OFF the team.



#234 bills7834

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:21 PM

Good luck to him. Hope he does well.
Good luck to him. Hope he does well.

You can say that again.
You can say that again.

#235 offsides#76FredSmerlas

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:49 PM

There's nothing smart at all about keeping such a garbage QB on the team as backup, especially when considering TT's style of play (ie. possibility of season-ending injury). Belichick would've cut him the bye week after London.

Burning a 1st-round pick on a MAJOR project QB was not very smart for a team going 10+ years without the playoffs; absolutely ZERO sense of urgency at all. Other than that though, picking him wasn't nearly as big of a problem as shoving him down 2 coaching staff's throats after it was pretty clear they wanted nothing to do with him.
Exactly.


It was pretty clear the coaching staffs didn't want EJ, hmmmm because the media talks like they know so much. We know that's a bunch of crap. We get fed more lies than truths. They speculate and make things up half the time. Rex went overboard about how much he liked EJ.

#236 Gugny

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:23 PM

You can say that again.
You can say that again.

 

I'm gonna get the papers, get the papers.


Good GMs acknowledge their mistakes, cut their losses in a timely manner, and move on. Only a chump would' keep EJ on the team after London, let alone finish the 4th year of his contract.

 

Would only a chump keep Sam Watson after London?

 

At least EJ didn't quit on the team.



#237 nedboy7

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:47 PM

Cardale is probably the next EJ.



#238 BillsFan4

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:20 AM

it's hard staying out of the EJ argument but sometimes it's needed.
I'll go back to one comment that said EJ crumbles under pressure yet the Jags game you mentioned was proof that the posters comments were completely off base.
As to the last game of the season who knows why it was such a bad game.
Did EJ suck, did the play calling suck or did the team just not care?

If EJ sucks for losing the Jags game. What does that say about Taylor and the offenses output against that same bad team?


EJ was horrible. All you had to do was watch the game to see that... lol. I don't even see how it's up for discussion.

Anthony Lynn basically even said after the game that EJ sucked. He said he didn't expect him to play so bad and didn't have any choice but to pull him (or something like that).

#239 BillsFan4

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:44 AM

Whaley and Nix didn't whiff. They had to take a QB. They all sucked. If they didn't take a shot on one of them that year the fans would of went nuts. Most QBs that get drafted even in the first round are busts. Do you hear all the fans even this year saying we need to draft a QB, but as soon as they do and it doesn't work out, they all scream for Whaley's head. Getting a QB worth a crap is like shooting darts blind folded. Most GM's get it wrong.


There's groups of Bills fans that scream for a 1st round QB every year. It's never forced the Bills to draft a 1st round QB in other years...
The Bills didn't have to draft a 1st round QB that year. The fans would still have come to games. They don't run the team, and if a GM is doing things because the fans would get mad if he didn't, that guy should not be a GM. Thats a horrible way to run an NFL team.

It had nothing to do with the fans. The Bills backed themselves into a corner by ignoring the position for years and then cemented their need for a QB when they released Fitz before they had anyone to replace him with.

I remember things differently when it comes to the fans and the 2013 draft though...

I absolutely did not want any one of the 2013 QBs in the 1st round, or at all for that matter. At the time I said I'd be ok with taking a chance on one in a later round, but that's about it. Pretty much every Bills fan friend of mine I talked to IRL said the same thing, citing how weak the draft was considered.

Also, just about every scout/GM/exec & well respected NFL analyst I read/seen quoted said that they didn't really see any franchise QBs in the 2013 draft. The only person I remember saying anything different was a Buddy Nix, who said "I don't agree with everyone saying that there is no franchise QBs in this draft. We see 3 or 4 potential franchise guys".

I honestly think that Buddy Nix decided he was taking a 1st round QB before he even did any in depth scouting on that QB class, and then just convinced himself that there were franchise QBs available because he wanted there to be so badly.

#240 GunnerBill

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:48 AM

They wanted in 2013 to be starting over.... that is why they cut Fitz and tied themselves into a Quarterback early. I had no issue with the EJ pick. It was a weak class and he was a reach but they needed to do something at the position.

The real fault was not picking EJ or cutting Fitz it was failing to address the position in the 2011 and 2012 drafts which have produced a number of NFL starting Quarterbacks who didn't even require a 1st round pick.... Wilson, Dalton, Cousins....

I will never hammer them for swinging and missing even if they didn't pick the ideal year to do it. I will hammer them for standing pat at the position when they had a starter that they knew wasn't the answer - whether that is Fitzpatrick in 2012 or Taylor in 2017.