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Kevon Seymour's potential in McDermott scheme


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#41 horned dogs

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:26 AM

DBs at the combine: 50 total timed

 

<4.2 none =no very fast guys

<4.3 1= Jalen Myrick Minn., never heard of him, he's fast, not much of a prospect

<4.4 3= Lattimore and Moreau, 2 elite prospects in the same category as Seymour= not really fast

 

the other 46 guys essentially were 4.5-4.6

 

That is some standard!



#42 Flip Johnson

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:59 AM

4.39 is not really that fast.  it's essentially 4.4
under 4.3 is fast

under 4.2 is very fast

 

4.4-4.5 is pretty good

4.6 is pedestrian in the nfl.

4.7 or above, get out of here.  you're a dt or ol.

 

According to your analysis, there are no "very fast" corners in the NFL. Nobody runs under 4.2. John Ross just broke the combine record at 4.22.


As to the bigger picture, as unproven as Seymour is, I don't have a whole lot more confidence in Darby. He seemed very tentative at times last year.

 

The consensus seems to be that there are a lot of good DBs in this draft, so a day 1 CB would certainly show a lack of confidence in what we currently have.



#43 schoolhouserock

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:59 AM

How is Seymour at tackling?  I think I recall McD saying that tackling ability is something he really looks for in his CBs - especially when it comes to tackling an RB coming out of the backfield.

 

For his size, I think Darby is actually quite good at tackling.  I have no clue how good Seymour is.



#44 Thurman#1

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:16 AM

its not.

Learn2speed. Dbs and wrs need to be low 4.3 at least.
I was a college sprinter, also. But this isn't Rico. The NFL players are small right now. They need to be faster. Especially as DL and lbs are getting bigger. I'm not impressed with 4.39
perhaps. But if you look at times the average is getting faster and faster as these guys learn to run. Maybe the bias is his game speed. Which appears slow. Similar to Gilmore. Darby has game speed. Byrd had game speed. Goodwin did not. Mckelvin had great game speed.

 

 

 

I'm trying to decide if you're a troll or deeply misled.

 

I'm thinking troll.

 

Very very few WRs or DBs are "low 4.3 at least." If you "need" to be that, there basically wouldn't be anyone playing there.

 

This year four guys, total, ran "low 4.3" and that's only if you include 4.35 as low. Not four WRs or four DBs, but four combine prospects total.

 

In 2016, five guys. In 2015, four guys. In 2014, three. In 2013, four. In 2012, one. In 2011, three. In 2010, three. In 2009, three. 2008 was tied for the best year ever, with eight. In 2007, six (three if you don't include the 4.35 guys), and in the earliest year available online, eight again, and all stalwarts: Tye Hill, Johnathan Joseph, Chad Jackson, Tim Jennings, Michael Huff, Willie Reid, Devin Aromashodu and Reggie McNeal.

 

So in total, only about four to five guys a year are fast enough to meet what you're calling the minimum standards to play WR or CB. Less if you throw out the 4.35s which really aren't "low," are they? That's maybe two WRs and two DBs a year.

 

http://www.nfl.com/c...L-LB-CB-OL-SPEC


Edited by Thurman#1, 20 April 2017 - 09:32 AM.


#45 Webster Guy

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:49 AM

He was a good interview on the Murph show last year at the end of camp. Very humble, focused and driven.

One thing about him I remember from the interview is his reach. He's got long arms and said he could dunk a basketball in 8th grade.

If he has a camp like last year he will be a solid #2. You know we're taking 2 more corners in this draft somewhere to compete for slot/nickel.

#46 elroy16

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:55 AM

Let's just cut Watkins slow ass, running a 4.43 40, what a bum.

 

 

Let's also acknowledge that 40 time doesn't always match game speed.

 

 

 

Back on topic, I've been a fan of Seymour since day one. Seems like a good kid, comes from an extremely rough area, and so far has said all the right things. Hopefully he can blossom into a solid player and get his family out of the snake pits.


Edited by elroy16, 20 April 2017 - 09:57 AM.


#47 NoSaint

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:57 AM

Seymour has all the potential in the world, but so do a lot of day 3 picks. At least he's a guy that has all the pieces though, now just a matter of putting them together.

#48 BillsfanAZ

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:20 AM

I think a lot of corners get burned in one on one situations. I also think the Bills safeties were terrible last season. I think with a corner friendly scheme and better safety play then Darby and Seymour can have productive years. 



#49 billrooter

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:25 AM

4.39 is not really that fast.  it's essentially 4.4
under 4.3 is fast
under 4.2 is very fast
 
4.4-4.5 is pretty good
4.6 is pedestrian in the nfl.
4.7 or above, get out of here.  you're a dt or ol.

Wow, so 4.39 isn't really that fast anymore? So why can't hardly anyone on the planet run that fast? How many people do you know that are very fast boyst, LOL I sense your joking with this post?

#50 John from Hemet

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:29 AM

Wow, so 4.39 isn't really that fast anymore? So why can't hardly anyone on the planet run that fast? How many people do you know that are very fast boyst, LOL I sense your joking with this post?

I unfortunately think he is being serious about the 4.39 thing

 

I dont even know what to say about that other then lay off the crack

 

What is actually important to these dbs is quick twitch reactionary speed and timing and closing speed.....being able to run a 4.4 is a def plus.....these dbs are out there often BAITING a qb to throw to a spot and then closing on it.

 

For instance...our very own mighty mouse that got a second contract from us but got cut this year....if the guy was Seymore's height imo he would not only still be with the team but one of our main playmakers.......


Edited by John from Hemet, 20 April 2017 - 10:44 AM.


#51 liverpoolkev

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:31 AM

I believe the Bills will draft a CB next week, but unless Lattimore falls in their laps at 10 I think they may focus on a slot CB in the mid-rounds, and focus on elevating Kevon Seymour to starting outside corner role opposite Darby. Josh Norman was also a 6th round pick before he emerged as a top CB under McDermott. I thought Seymour took some lumps as most rookie corners do this past season, Rex's scheme hung them out to dry a lot and I think he did show some good technique as well. This graphic is interesting (h/t @BUFFAL0SOLDI3R)

C9zr4KuWsAMuO0c.jpg

 I really hope its Leslie Frazier scheme..... Did anyone do any research on the Panthers defense the past five years . If not you should because its not impressive at all



#52 John from Hemet

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:33 AM

 I really hope its Leslie Frazier scheme..... Did anyone do any research on the Panthers defense the past five years . If not you should because its not impressive at all

Other then being in the top 10 EVERY year to include a super bowl year with the exception of LAST year?



#53 liverpoolkev

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:41 AM

Glad someone started this thread.

I feel like one of the very few things that Rex did right was properly develop Darby. Rex had good instincts regarding him and they paid off. I suspect that he had the same sort of plans for Seymour. He showed the same kind of promise that Darby did, but didn't have the same opportunity because of Gilmore's presence.

Pundits seem fairly united in the idea that CB is one of our top two needs. Certainly, we are shallow in that regard, but I have high hopes for Seymour. And for Darby, for that matter. I have posted on this site that I believe that Darby is every bit the CB that Gilmore is. I have been flamed for the remark, but stand by that opinion.

I also believe that Seymour has that same potential. I submit that CB is not quite the dire need that pundits claim it to be.

 

​I'm sorry but that staff didn't develop anything . Whaley had good instincts in drafting Darby while WGR and the Buffalo news was more worried about him being roomed with J.Winston. Rex didn't know Seymour from a can a paint ( he said so himself)   Good thing Whaley picked Seymore. I trust this front office to find what ever pieces we need to become successful......... I trust Whaley choice for HC (McDermitt) although his defenses have been bottom 3rd in the league the past 5 yrs



#54 John from Hemet

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:52 AM

 

​I'm sorry but that staff didn't develop anything . Whaley had good instincts in drafting Darby while WGR and the Buffalo news was more worried about him being roomed with J.Winston. Rex didn't know Seymour from a can a paint ( he said so himself)   Good thing Whaley picked Seymore. I trust this front office to find what ever pieces we need to become successful......... I trust Whaley choice for HC (McDermitt) although his defenses have been bottom 3rd in the league the past 5 yrs

The missing denominator in all of this......letting the DB coach go that was actually developing Darby and replacing him with a Rex cronie

 

THAT is one of the real things that has started our db efficiency slide


 

​I'm sorry but that staff didn't develop anything . Whaley had good instincts in drafting Darby while WGR and the Buffalo news was more worried about him being roomed with J.Winston. Rex didn't know Seymour from a can a paint ( he said so himself)   Good thing Whaley picked Seymore. I trust this front office to find what ever pieces we need to become successful......... I trust Whaley choice for HC (McDermitt) although his defenses have been bottom 3rd in the league the past 5 yrs

Where are you getting your rankings on defensive stats?



#55 Boyst62

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:10 AM

 
 
 
I'm trying to decide if you're a troll or deeply misled.
 
I'm thinking troll.
 
Very very few WRs or DBs are "low 4.3 at least." If you "need" to be that, there basically wouldn't be anyone playing there.
 
This year four guys, total, ran "low 4.3" and that's only if you include 4.35 as low. Not four WRs or four DBs, but four combine prospects total.
 
In 2016, five guys. In 2015, four guys. In 2014, three. In 2013, four. In 2012, one. In 2011, three. In 2010, three. In 2009, three. 2008 was tied for the best year ever, with eight. In 2007, six (three if you don't include the 4.35 guys), and in the earliest year available online, eight again, and all stalwarts: Tye Hill, Johnathan Joseph, Chad Jackson, Tim Jennings, Michael Huff, Willie Reid, Devin Aromashodu and Reggie McNeal.
 
So in total, only about four to five guys a year are fast enough to meet what you're calling the minimum standards to play WR or CB. Less if you throw out the 4.35s which really aren't "low," are they? That's maybe two WRs and two DBs a year.
 
http://www.nfl.com/c...L-LB-CB-OL-SPEC

I don't go off of numbers alone. I watch him play. He is not a game speed guy in the pads. Gilmore didn't have to be because he stayed on his man. Say, better than cromartie. When cromartie made an error, which he did more than Gilmore, he lost speed to correct himself which is why he fell off. But, cromartie ran fast in a 40?

Seymour is a corner who isn't ideal as of right now for zone. He doesn't have closing speed and did not display the awareness to supercede his poor reactions. The game was simply too fast for him.

He will get tore up by vets who will pick him apart. Brady, breeds, Ryan, newton and even Winston are good at selling reads. 2017 without Gilly is gonna suck.

But yeah. I'm a troll. This troll can go on if you'd like, but I want to make sure its worth my time to hold class.

Wow, so 4.39 isn't really that fast anymore? So why can't hardly anyone on the planet run that fast? How many people do you know that are very fast boyst, LOL I sense your joking with this post?

its you're.

I unfortunately think he is being serious about the 4.39 thing
 
I dont even know what to say about that other then lay off the crack
 
What is actually important to these dbs is quick twitch reactionary speed and timing and closing speed.....being able to run a 4.4 is a def plus.....these dbs are out there often BAITING a qb to throw to a spot and then closing on it.
 
For instance...our very own mighty mouse that got a second contract from us but got cut this year....if the guy was Seymore's height imo he would not only still be with the team but one of our main playmakers.......

see above. I'll refuse to debate any issue with you until we goback to your wweek 2 argument that buy into Rex's great system was low because players were the fault.

 I really hope its Leslie Frazier scheme..... Did anyone do any research on the Panthers defense the past five years . If not you should because its not impressive at all

a high octane offense blasting away other teams helped a lot when the offense wore out in the second half and Al the defense had to to was hold them to less than 30 ppg.
Carolina was a good defense. But Denver's was great. And there is a big difference

#56 John from Hemet

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:18 AM

I don't go off of numbers alone. I watch him play. He is not a game speed guy in the pads. Gilmore didn't have to be because he stayed on his man. Say, better than cromartie. When cromartie made an error, which he did more than Gilmore, he lost speed to correct himself which is why he fell off. But, cromartie ran fast in a 40?

Seymour is a corner who isn't ideal as of right now for zone. He doesn't have closing speed and did not display the awareness to supercede his poor reactions. The game was simply too fast for him.

He will get tore up by vets who will pick him apart. Brady, breeds, Ryan, newton and even Winston are good at selling reads. 2017 without Gilly is gonna suck.

But yeah. I'm a troll. This troll can go on if you'd like, but I want to make sure its worth my time to hold class.
its you're.
see above. I'll refuse to debate any issue with you until we goback to your wweek 2 argument that buy into Rex's great system was low because players were the fault.
a high octane offense blasting away other teams helped a lot when the offense wore out in the second half and Al the defense had to to was hold them to less than 30 ppg.
Carolina was a good defense. But Denver's was great. And there is a big difference

Why are you baiting and switching.....if I wanted to talk about that topic with you I would and maybe will at another time.....we are talking about your bs that a db that runs under a 4.4 is not a fast db in the NFL in this thread....which frankly is lunicy



#57 Boyst62

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:21 AM

Why are you baiting and switching.....if I wanted to talk about that topic with you I would and maybe will at another time.....we are talking about your bs that a db that runs under a 4.4 is not a fast db in the NFL in this thread....which frankly is lunicy

why?

#58 John from Hemet

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:29 AM

why?

why what?



#59 Rocky Landing

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:32 AM

 

​I'm sorry but that staff didn't develop anything . Whaley had good instincts in drafting Darby while WGR and the Buffalo news was more worried about him being roomed with J.Winston. Rex didn't know Seymour from a can a paint ( he said so himself)   Good thing Whaley picked Seymore. I trust this front office to find what ever pieces we need to become successful......... I trust Whaley choice for HC (McDermitt) although his defenses have been bottom 3rd in the league the past 5 yrs

I remember Rex throwing Darby into preseason games and put him in very difficult, man coverages that were clear mismatches. There was a lot of talk about these intentional mismatches, as I recall, in the post-game pressers.

 

I also recall Rex talking up Seymour in the preseason, and beyond, especially as a nickel back.



#60 Boyst62

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 12:54 PM

why what?

why is his 4.39 speed so important to say he is a good player to contend to a pro bowl player?