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Tyrod will not be handed starting Job


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#841 transplantbillsfan

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:30 PM

 

That looks personal imo.

 

I'll make a mental note to let 2 day threads die. 

 

It's personal to call someone a hypocrite when they're being a hypocrite?

 

Being a hypocrite is pretty easily, objectively, and clearly defined.  It's not like calling someone an "idiot" or a "douchebag."

 

He was clearly being a hypocrite.

 

You have a weird definition of things "getting personal."

 

Are you upset because I used the word "friggin?"


Edited by transplantbillsfan, 22 May 2017 - 02:32 PM.


#842 Dr. Who

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:37 PM

Racketmaster,

 

I consider Denver and Houston considerably better than the Bills.  It's not clear that either was interested in Taylor, is it?

Preference to stay in Buffalo may include the more sanguine picture you suggest.

It may also be that Taylor's options were not terribly good.  He took a large paycut, did he not?

 

It really doesn't matter at this point, however.  He'll be given the opportunity to prove himself the long-term answer at qb.

Imo, he will have to improve considerably or we will draft a qb high next year.



#843 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:42 PM

Racketmaster,
 
I consider Denver and Houston considerably better than the Bills.  It's not clear that either was interested in Taylor, is it?
Preference to stay in Buffalo may include the more sanguine picture you suggest.
It may also be that Taylor's options were not terribly good.  He took a large paycut, did he not?
 
It really doesn't matter at this point, however.  He'll be given the opportunity to prove himself the long-term answer at qb.
Imo, he will have to improve considerably or we will draft a qb high next year.

Houston had their hands tied because of the money to Brock. They weren't an option for that reason. Denver had a young guy play decently and a 1st round pick entering year 2. While Tyrod represents an upgrade to both guys it's not a wise decision to spend $18M (or whatever) to get him there when you already have those other options. The reality is we don't know which teams were interested. We heard some rumblings here and there but don't know what's real because he Bills kept him.

#844 old school

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:45 PM

Houston had their hands tied because of the money to Brock. They weren't an option for that reason. Denver had a young guy play decently and a 1st round pick entering year 2. While Tyrod represents an upgrade to both guys it's not a wise decision to spend $18M (or whatever) to get him there when you already have those other options. The reality is we don't know which teams were interested. We heard some rumblings here and there but don't know what's real because he Bills kept him.

Siemian also made the Pro Bowl, more a lateral move minimal upgrade to me. 



#845 ShadyBillsFan

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:52 PM

Siemian also made the Pro Bowl, more a lateral move minimal upgrade to me. 

Taylor made and played in the Pro Bowl in 2015 , both Taylor and Siemian passed on Pro Bowl due to injuries in 2017.


Making it an an alternates alternate ....



#846 Dr. Who

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:55 PM

Houston had their hands tied because of the money to Brock. They weren't an option for that reason. Denver had a young guy play decently and a 1st round pick entering year 2. While Tyrod represents an upgrade to both guys it's not a wise decision to spend $18M (or whatever) to get him there when you already have those other options. The reality is we don't know which teams were interested. We heard some rumblings here and there but don't know what's real because he Bills kept him.

I agree that one can only conjecture.  I also assume Houston may have thought Romo was in play for quite a while, but maybe not.

Either way, however strong or weak Taylor's hand was, he is the starter for us.  If he's better than I surmise, we have two first round picks to upgrade the roster.



#847 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:02 PM

I agree that one can only conjecture.  I also assume Houston may have thought Romo was in play for quite a while, but maybe not.
Either way, however strong or weak Taylor's hand was, he is the starter for us.  If he's better than I surmise, we have two first round picks to upgrade the roster.

That's how I am approaching it. It's a "prove-it" year for TT. He either takes a step and solidifies himself as the guy or the Bills invest those draft picks on the next guy. It's actually a pretty good place to be (as weird as that sounds).

Edited by Kirby Jackson, 22 May 2017 - 03:02 PM.


#848 transplantbillsfan

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:17 PM

The "future" is a relative term. If the future means the next 2 years, then TT is McD's guy. McD had weeks to review TT's tape and look at all other options available. He is a methodical, detail-oriented and analytical and all part of his "process" when making decisions. The Sammy situation was very similar and McD does not just make quick proclamations without giving them serious thought. What we know is that McD thoroughly reviewed TT and came to the conclusion that he was their best option at basically 15m per year. Would he and the Bills gone higher, nobody knows except for McD. But TT seemed eager to stay with the Bills right from the beginning of McD's hire. After being treated poorly at the end of the season, he called McD after he was hired and he was there for his first press conference. It is clear that TT wanted to be with the Bills or otherwise he would have just disappeared and rehabbed on his own. But instead, he stayed in Buffalo and rehabbed and he and McD got to know each other further. TT and McD are similar guys in that they are very competitive, hard-working and down to earth. In addition to what McD saw on tape, I believe TT's dedication and hard working attitude won him over. McD said he wanted a "leader" at the QB position and he decided to go with TT. the 2 year deal gives McD more than enough time to see TT under his system. McD also hired Dennison before making the decision on TT. This gave him further insight on TT. McD interviewed Dennison and it is clear that Dennison has been a fan of TT. This would have come through during the interview process and McD hired the OC who believes in TT. All reports indicated that McD and Whaley were at odds over TT. Hiring Dennison gave McD another voice that would be on his side as far as keeping TT. 

 

Getting back to TT, it was clear he wanted to stay in  Buffalo from the beginning of McD's hire. Why? I really don't know but I can take an educated guess. TT looked at his situation in Buffalo and saw an offense that had been in the top 10 in the NFL in scoring. In fact, they were in the top 5 in scoring from week 2 thru week 16. This was without Watkins (he was a shell of himself all last year) and a rash of injuries at the wr position. He sees that he has a solid OL and some playmakers around him  (Watkins, Clay, McCoy) when healthy. His early meetings with McD likely went well and he sees the HC hire an OC that believes in him. An OC that will install a system that he is familiar with and that he believes will maximize his potential. I know we are used to athletes just going to the team that pays the most $, but not all of them do this. I see TT as a guy that wants to be paid fairly but will not try and hold a team hostage to try and squeeze every last dollar out of them. TT likes his supporting cast and he likes his OC. He probably really likes McD. There would have only been only 5-6 other NFL teams out there that were looking to upgrade their starting QB (Chicago, Denver, Jets, Cleveland, Houston, SF). 4 of those teams have limited weapons on offense and TT would be risking going to a new team, with a new system and lesser offensive weapons. In Denver and Houston, the teams have been solid (slightly better than the Bills). But maybe they did not show as much interest or maybe TT did not feel those teams would be running a Shanahan/Kubiak offense that he felt comfortable with. There certainly could be other reasons but if I am TT why not stay in Buffalo. I have friends on the team and have talented weapons around me. I am very familiar with Dennison's offense and think it will maximize my abilities. I trust myself and have bet on myself before. Why not do it again as I am still going to get paid 30mil over 2 years. I want to be great and that is more important to me than going to a new city, team and system just to squeeze out a few extra million. Again, I don't pretend to know this as fact but it all seems very reasonable and plausible. 

 

Solid post.  Pretty much the way I feel on the subject, too. :thumbsup:



#849 grb

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:36 PM

Suggested middle ground on Taylor’s contract :

 

  1. Despite news accounts, I doubt the Bills ever seriously considered jettisoning Taylor. Reasons : ( a ) No better option was plausible. ( b ) Despite all the negative press, no reporter ever got a solid quote suggesting TT was on the way out. Not off the record; not even put in some ambiguous fashion. The front office carefully didn’t torch their bridges, even behind the scenes. ( c ) The Pegulas’ early-January apology over TT’s last game benching. This was possibly aimed at potential coach hires, but more likely was a signal to Taylor, the only person remotely upset about the issue. I found it significant because billionaires don’t apologize to 27 year old athletes without good reason. All of the whinging about Taylor being on the outs was never more than kabuki theater for anticipated negotiations.
  2. Taylor could have gotten marginally more money than his new Bills contract on the open market -  but not the money of his old contract. Also, there were only a limited number of teams potentially interested. Still, let’s take Cleveland as an example. They were willing to swallow Osweiler's horrendous contract just to buy a second round pick. It’s my belief they would have offered TT the same money - or slightly more - than the new Bills deal, with the Jets also a possible suitor. But no one would have matched the old deal. Of course you have to look at the dynamics with that : Taylor wanted real money for the first time in his career. Whaley wanted to place a simultaneous bet on TT as huge success or flop. The deal gave both sides what they wanted. Incidentally, the freedom Whaley got in the old deal also explains the infamous injury clause. His freedom was Taylor’s risk.
  3. Taylor wasn’t interested in chasing a stray million or two, but not solely for team spirit. Even granting that a part of it, the dysfunction of teams like the Browns & Jets was probably more important. The Bills offer him a better chance to win and show himself off while doing so. The contract offers him the chance to get a massive payday while still in the prime of his career. This can come as early as next year, after a respectable 15.5 million guaranteed. Taylor believes in himself, so this looks good to him long range. The dynamic here is both sides got freedom, Taylor and the Bills.

Edited by grb, 22 May 2017 - 04:36 PM.


#850 transplantbillsfan

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:24 PM

 

Suggested middle ground on Taylor’s contract :

 

  1. Despite news accounts, I doubt the Bills ever seriously considered jettisoning Taylor. Reasons : ( a ) No better option was plausible. ( b ) Despite all the negative press, no reporter ever got a solid quote suggesting TT was on the way out. Not off the record; not even put in some ambiguous fashion. The front office carefully didn’t torch their bridges, even behind the scenes. ( c ) The Pegulas’ early-January apology over TT’s last game benching. This was possibly aimed at potential coach hires, but more likely was a signal to Taylor, the only person remotely upset about the issue. I found it significant because billionaires don’t apologize to 27 year old athletes without good reason. All of the whinging about Taylor being on the way out was never more than kabuki theater for anticipated negotiations.
  2. Taylor could have gotten marginally more money than his new Bills contract on the open market -  but not the money of his old contract. Also, there were only a limited number of teams potentially interested. Still, let’s take Cleveland as an example. They were willing to swallow Osweiler horrendous contract just to buy a second round pick. It’s my belief they would have offered TT the same money - or slightly more - than the new Bills deal, with the Jets also a possible suitor. But no one would have matched the old deal. Of course you have to look at the dynamics with that : Taylor wanted real money for the first time in his career. Whaley wanted to place a simultaneous bet on TT as huge success or flop. The deal gave both sides what they wanted. Incidentally, the freedom Whaley got in the old deal also explains the infamous injury clause. His freedom was Taylor’s risk.
  3. Taylor wasn’t interested in chasing a stray million or two, but not solely for team spirit. Even granting that a part of it, the dysfunction of teams like the Browns & Jets was probably more important. The Bills offer him a better chance to win and show himself off while doing so. The contract offers him the chance to get a massive payday while still in the prime of his career. This can come as early as next year, after a respectable 15.5 million guaranteed. Taylor believes in himself, so this looks good to him long range. The dynamic here is both sides got freedom, Taylor and the Bills.

 

 

Well said.  Pretty well captures how I feel this went down :thumbsup:



#851 Limeaid

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 05:40 PM

Racketmaster,

 

I consider Denver and Houston considerably better than the Bills.  It's not clear that either was interested in Taylor, is it?

Preference to stay in Buffalo may include the more sanguine picture you suggest.

It may also be that Taylor's options were not terribly good.  He took a large paycut, did he not?

 

It really doesn't matter at this point, however.  He'll be given the opportunity to prove himself the long-term answer at qb.

Imo, he will have to improve considerably or we will draft a qb high next year.

 

Denver had interest in TT but that may have changed since Lynch was signed and turnover there.



#852 Limeaid

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 05:54 PM

 

Suggested middle ground on Taylor’s contract :

 

  1. Despite news accounts, I doubt the Bills ever seriously considered jettisoning Taylor. Reasons : ( a ) No better option was plausible. ( b ) Despite all the negative press, no reporter ever got a solid quote suggesting TT was on the way out. Not off the record; not even put in some ambiguous fashion. The front office carefully didn’t torch their bridges, even behind the scenes. ( c ) The Pegulas’ early-January apology over TT’s last game benching. This was possibly aimed at potential coach hires, but more likely was a signal to Taylor, the only person remotely upset about the issue. I found it significant because billionaires don’t apologize to 27 year old athletes without good reason. All of the whinging about Taylor being on the outs was never more than kabuki theater for anticipated negotiations.
  2. Taylor could have gotten marginally more money than his new Bills contract on the open market -  but not the money of his old contract. Also, there were only a limited number of teams potentially interested. Still, let’s take Cleveland as an example. They were willing to swallow Osweiler's horrendous contract just to buy a second round pick. It’s my belief they would have offered TT the same money - or slightly more - than the new Bills deal, with the Jets also a possible suitor. But no one would have matched the old deal. Of course you have to look at the dynamics with that : Taylor wanted real money for the first time in his career. Whaley wanted to place a simultaneous bet on TT as huge success or flop. The deal gave both sides what they wanted. Incidentally, the freedom Whaley got in the old deal also explains the infamous injury clause. His freedom was Taylor’s risk.
  3. Taylor wasn’t interested in chasing a stray million or two, but not solely for team spirit. Even granting that a part of it, the dysfunction of teams like the Browns & Jets was probably more important. The Bills offer him a better chance to win and show himself off while doing so. The contract offers him the chance to get a massive payday while still in the prime of his career. This can come as early as next year, after a respectable 15.5 million guaranteed. Taylor believes in himself, so this looks good to him long range. The dynamic here is both sides got freedom, Taylor and the Bills.

 

Good summary.  There was NOTHING wrong with benching other than how it was presented.  The injury clause, a good clause IMO, was known to and agreed to by TT and being unhappy about it is similar to the NFLPA's bitching to get what they did not in contract renewal. 

 

would like to know TT's honest opinion of staff accumulated by new head coach vs previous coach but it is very hard for a player to be honest since that could affect you in future.



#853 John from Hemet

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 05:58 PM

 

Good summary.  There was NOTHING wrong with benching other than how it was presented.  The injury clause, a good clause IMO, was known to and agreed to by TT and being unhappy about it is similar to the NFLPA's bitching to get what they did not in contract renewal. 

 

would like to know TT's honest opinion of staff accumulated by new head coach vs previous coach but it is very hard for a player to be honest since that could affect you in future.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if either EJ or C. Jones actually played well in that jets game

 

I mean....it was a total tire fire so its a moot point but......



#854 teef

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:42 PM

i've heard taylor may not be handed the starting job.  does anyone know if this is true?



#855 ShadyBillsFan

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:57 PM

i've heard taylor may not be handed the starting job.  does anyone know if this is true?

Rotflmao

#856 34-78-83

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:02 AM

This is very possible.


His arm is way too weak.Think Fitz throwing the out pattern. Same visual. Too easy to break on for a db.
TT has also not shown to be the franchise guy at least yet BUT is better than given credit for here and should do well in this ADAPTATION of the Wco.

#857 papazoid

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:05 AM

i've heard taylor may not be handed the starting job.  does anyone know if this is true?

 

 

yea, he's in the same boat at shady, sammy, kyle & marcel

 

they all have to "earn" it (that's code for just show up healthy)



#858 NorthBuffaloKid

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:53 AM

 

 

yea, he's in the same boat at shady, sammy, kyle & marcel

 

they all have to "earn" it (that's code for just show up healthy)

Marcel better show up in shape.