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This is not a rebuild, folks...


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#21 liverpoolkev

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:21 AM

 

 

I could see the OLine being better with the addition of Dawkins at RT, though there may be rookie growing pains.  I could see the defensive line being better with a full season from Lawson and a focused season from Dareus and a return to the better fit of a 4-3.  Everywhere else I think got worse or at best stayed the same:

 

CBs - Gilmore to White - downgrade, NRC gone, depth is a ????

WRs - Woods to Jones - ???? could go either way, depth is another ???

LBs - Zach Brown to Ragland - downgrade, can the linebackers play McD's scheme?

S - Graham & Williams to Hyde & Poyer (I'd feel better if we get Boston) -  ????  Could go either way

RB - Gillislee to ????

 

 

Yes, the coaching staff is bringing a more disciplined approach, but it's also a first time head coach and they are implementing a new offensive and defensive scheme, there are likely going to be growing pains.  I don't think we'll go 2-14 (we never do), but it's a tough schedule with a lot of changes and a lot of questions, I can't see a legitimate playoff push right now.

 

don't for get to add the defense was 27th  21st 10th 10th and lucked up a ranked 2nd the past 5 yrs . Let the fire begin both will be fired by the 3rd season



#22 BillsVet

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:47 AM

It's a perennial occurrence on TBD that fans cite injuries for Buffalo not succeeding. And that's going to happen in 2017 because they're razor thin across the board, save perhaps interior OL, and DL. One injury disrupts just about every other position.

 

RB depth is nil and McCoy has had a balky hammy for a while now. WR depth is a complete unknown and the starters aren't close to set. Others here already made the case they're thin at LB (even playing nickel) and the secondary is still completely new. Beyond Hyde, there isn't a capable starter there. Starters and depth at corner are an unknown and the talent drop off will be evident if one of them gets hurt.

 

I like where the management is going. But installing new schemes on both sides of the ball is a double edged sword. While it means other teams aren't sure how to plan for them as well, the players need to learn what the staff wants to do...again.

 

The off-season purge was years perhaps decades overdue. Doing things right takes time and I can't see them, with this schedule, winning more than 6 games. No one's calling it a rebuild, but that's precisely what it is.



#23 BillsFan17

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:50 AM

We cleaned house, let a lot of players from the previous regime walk and put one of the main investments of the old staff in Watkins on notice.

They also reduced the years of Tyrod and set it up so that they could walk away easier.

If you don't thunk this is a rebuild, than I don't think you are paying attention.

Edited by BillsFan17, 10 May 2017 - 09:57 AM.


#24 eball

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:53 AM

It's a perennial occurrence on TBD that fans cite injuries for Buffalo not succeeding. And that's going to happen in 2017 because they're razor thin across the board, save perhaps interior OL, and DL. One injury disrupts just about every other position.

 

RB depth is nil and McCoy has had a balky hammy for a while now. WR depth is a complete unknown and the starters aren't close to set. Others here already made the case they're thin at LB (even playing nickel) and the secondary is still completely new. Beyond Hyde, there isn't a capable starter there. Starters and depth at corner are an unknown and the talent drop off will be evident if one of them gets hurt.

 

I like where the management is going. But installing new schemes on both sides of the ball is a double edged sword. While it means other teams aren't sure how to plan for them as well, the players need to learn what the staff wants to do...again.

 

The off-season purge was years perhaps decades overdue. Doing things right takes time and I can't see them, with this schedule, winning more than 6 games. No one's calling it a rebuild, but that's precisely what it is.

 

Name a team that isn't thin at some key position(s).  My only point is that it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that a new approach yields better results, and the roster isn't talent-poor.



#25 JohnBonhamRocks

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:55 AM

Not a rebuild, but a reprocess



#26 teef

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:57 AM

 

don't for get to add the defense was 27th  21st 10th 10th and lucked up a ranked 2nd the past 5 yrs . Let the fire begin both will be fired by the 3rd season

god...you were obnoxious on the bbmb, and you're even worse here.  



#27 ROONDOGG55

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:06 AM

...and I find it amusing that posters are saying things like "give them three years and we'll see" and whatnot.

 

Yes, it's McD's first HC job, and yes, it's Beane's first GM job (although he did serve as interim GM for 10 games in 2012), but these guys are hardly "green" and the Bills' roster cupboard is far from bare.

 

I will be shocked if the Bills aren't at least a 6-7 win team, and I certainly think it's possible they could win 9 or 10.  This is not a rebuild, it's a refocus.

There is definitely the potential for a multiple win season, but our secondary will be the weak link in this equation. McD had a tough time last year with the lack of experience in the secondary. Hopefully Darby shines in his third year and White transitions nicely to NFL level of talent. If that happens, then I think we can pull off a 10-11 win season with a few upsets over top tier teams.



#28 BuffaloBaumer

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:11 AM

The major issue I have is that it SHOULD be a rebuilding year. While trading down in the first was a good idea, keeping Kyle and Shady was stupid. This team will always be in rebuild mode until they find a qb. There is no reason Kyle, Shady OR Tyrod should be here this year with no chance to make the playoffs.....and save me the speech about this possibly being a playoff team. This was the year to unload and go after the QB next year while having a ton of cap space if done properly. 

 

Maybe it's not too late with a new GM in place but I foresee the typical 6-8 wins for yet another year. 



#29 KellyToughII

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:12 AM

Not a rebuild, but a reprocess

+1 Good one.

 

And we must trust the reprocess. 


Edited by KellyToughII, 10 May 2017 - 10:12 AM.


#30 yungmack

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:16 AM

We could swap the entire operation with the Pats - players, coaches, FO, owner - and a substantial percentage of Bills fans would be moaning about another 6 or 7 win season.

Edited by yungmack, 10 May 2017 - 10:23 AM.


#31 Mark80

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:26 AM

 

 

I could see the OLine being better with the addition of Dawkins at RT, though there may be rookie growing pains.  I could see the defensive line being better with a full season from Lawson and a focused season from Dareus and a return to the better fit of a 4-3.  Everywhere else I think got worse or at best stayed the same:

 

CBs - Gilmore to White - downgrade, NRC gone, depth is a ????

WRs - Woods to Jones - ???? could go either way, depth is another ???

LBs - Zach Brown to Ragland - downgrade, can the linebackers play McD's scheme?

S - Graham & Williams to Hyde & Poyer (I'd feel better if we get Boston) -  ????  Could go either way

RB - Gillislee to ????

 

 

Yes, the coaching staff is bringing a more disciplined approach, but it's also a first time head coach and they are implementing a new offensive and defensive scheme, there are likely going to be growing pains.  I don't think we'll go 2-14 (we never do), but it's a tough schedule with a lot of changes and a lot of questions, I can't see a legitimate playoff push right now.

 

How do we know Gilmore to White is a downgrade exactly?  Especially considering White is $10+M cheaper which allows us to fill other holes.  I mean, White has to be a better tackler at the very least.  He has to.

WRs - What has Woods ever done?  Blocked a few guys?  Awesome.  How about a WR who makes catches?  Also, what about the addition of Andre Holmes and Sammy who SHOULD come into the season much more healthy than last season.

LBs - Brown to Ragland a downgrade?  Zach Brown cannot tackle.  Ragland is a tackling machine.  I'm sorry, but I want a guy in the middle that can actually tackle RBs.  I would prefer Preston to be the Brown that left though.

S - How are you listing Williams when he missed pretty much the entire last 2 seasons?  Yeah, he was very good.  But it's not hard to improve over a guy that missed 75% of the games in the last 2 years and we were playing scrubs off the street.  And, because we let Gilmore walk we could use the money on Hyde, a very serviceable S to say the least.

HB - Gillislee takes advantage of worn down defenses and he does it very well.  He is not a 4 quarter feature back.  Without Shady wearing down the D all game long, Gillislee would not have nearly as good numbers as he did in his limited touches.  HBs are a dime a dozen, especially back up HBs.  This is the least of anyone's concerns.


Edited by Mark80, 10 May 2017 - 10:27 AM.


#32 GunnerBill

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:31 AM

It's a perennial occurrence on TBD that fans cite injuries for Buffalo not succeeding. And that's going to happen in 2017 because they're razor thin across the board, save perhaps interior OL, and DL. One injury disrupts just about every other position.

 

RB depth is nil and McCoy has had a balky hammy for a while now. WR depth is a complete unknown and the starters aren't close to set. Others here already made the case they're thin at LB (even playing nickel) and the secondary is still completely new. Beyond Hyde, there isn't a capable starter there. Starters and depth at corner are an unknown and the talent drop off will be evident if one of them gets hurt.

 

I like where the management is going. But installing new schemes on both sides of the ball is a double edged sword. While it means other teams aren't sure how to plan for them as well, the players need to learn what the staff wants to do...again.

 

The off-season purge was years perhaps decades overdue. Doing things right takes time and I can't see them, with this schedule, winning more than 6 games. No one's calling it a rebuild, but that's precisely what it is.

 

For once, and it is rare.... I agree with most of what BillsVet has said here.  



#33 cba fan

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:40 AM

rebuild

verb

To bring back to a previous normal condition:

 

so they are rebuilding the early 90's Bills then.??

 

except that that was never normal in Bills parlance.



#34 PaattMaann

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:45 AM

I LOL at the "tough schedule" people...you have no clue how those teams will be next year (aside from the Pats will be awesome and we will lose twice to them, which is what can be said every year)



#35 Gugny

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:46 AM

 

So the best response you have is to repeat that the HC and GM are in first-year roles?

 

How many games did Gilmore win for us?  Who are the other five players you reference?  Woods? Hurt all the time.  Gillislie?  Backup RB.  Brown? Did you watch the Pittsburgh game?

 

We'll see who is closer to being right.

 

Actually my response said a lot more than that.

 

Robert Woods missed 7 games in 4 years.

Your CB isn't supposed to win games for you.  And if you're insinuating that Gilmore wasn't good, you should look again.  Also - who replaced him?

If you're trivializing the importance of quality RB depth on a team who has a QB with no passing game, you're being silly.

And if you'd like to cite one game to minimize Brown's impact, I'll go ahead and cite the other 15.  Again ... durability is purty important.

 

As far as having a rookie HC ... history hasn't treated them well.  And that's on teams that aren't dysfunctional and devoid of talent.

 

Take those glasses off and dump out the Kool Aid, man.  

 

It's a rebuild.



#36 Dorkington

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:48 AM

We've been in rebuild mode since 2000



#37 chaccof

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:50 AM

i can't help but wonder who our next head coach will be in three years.....



#38 Success

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:50 AM

I think this could be our most competitive team in years. We were close to contending before Rex ruined the defense. If McD cans get that unit back on track and Taylor can play more consistently at the level we've seen in games like Seattle and Miami last year, the Bills can make the playoffs.

#39 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:51 AM

And because it's not a rebuild, it's why we always go 7-9 or 6-10 most seasons.

Yes, we could sneak into the playoffs and I will be very happy. But odds are we're winning 6 or 7 games & might not have the ammo to pick a top qb to end this mediocre cycle.

I believe this is a talent team. I think with a top qb we are easily a playoff team. Tyrod is fine and certainly not a major problem. But I don't know if he will ever be a difference maker. And until we get that, our margin for error is so small.

I see this a lot like you do. This season has a different feel but I expect similar results. The Bills aren't bad enough to be a 3-13 type of team. That would allow them to grab a top QB prospect and rebuild quickly. They have a shot at the playoffs (I would say 20%ish) but are not Super Bowl contenders. If they do win 9 games (as an example) and just miss the playoffs what do they do next year? The problem is it's hard to go from the middle to the top. I wish that they either went all in this year (re-sign Gilmore, BPA at 10, re-sign MG, etc..) and tried to contend or blew it up. I am willing to let this play out but this feels like a decent football team that won't be good enough to win it all or bad enough to add major talent.

#40 Gugny

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:55 AM

I think this could be our most competitive team in years. We were close to contending before Rex ruined the defense. If McD cans get that unit back on track and Taylor can play more consistently at the level we've seen in games like Seattle and Miami last year, the Bills can make the playoffs.

 

Other than the Marrone team and this year's team having only Kyle Williams and Eric Wood in common, this is spot on.