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Worried About the Scout Vacancies- Big Hole!


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#41 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:11 PM

I see
 
So if the bills go into next year and have a great draft will it still be a indefensable mistake?

It won't make it a good decision, no. They could still have gotten anyone that they can get now. The only difference is they could lose some guys (like Monos) that they might not have wanted to lose. It wasn't like getting rid of those guys opened up something else. There is ONLY downside to how they've done it.

#42 klos63

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:12 PM

That's what I am disputing. Time won't tell because there was no upside to the way they did it. All that they did was give up control. There was ZERO benefit to their plan. That's why it is an indefensible mistake.

I'm not a huge fan of the way the Pegula's have run their franchises thus far, but I so no issue with this. They'll hire enough scouts in time for the next college season. And we have scouting reports from the previous staff, that's proprietary property of the Buffalo Bills.



#43 jmc12290

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:12 PM

I see
 
So if the bills go into next year and have a great draft will it still be a indefensable mistake?


That's what he said. We will have a great draft in spite of what the Bills did, not because of it.

#44 Augie

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:15 PM

Blokes, Gunner, Bandit,...........


That's a good start, but those aren't the posters who think they know more that the actual professional, experienced scouts. THAT is a different list. :)

#45 klos63

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:15 PM

That's what I am disputing. Time won't tell because there was no upside to the way they did it. All that they did was give up control. There was ZERO benefit to their plan. That's why it is an indefensible mistake.

They cleaned house, this is what happens. And they can certainly hire some of these guys back if the new GM wants them. Can't see anyone of them turning down a job to come back.



#46 jethro_tull

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:17 PM

It IS a problem now. Scouts are under contract. We can't solicit guys currently scouting.

And nobody asked about this at the press conference.  



#47 Success

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:19 PM

Scouting is something Beane was supposedly exceptional with - I don't have much doubt that he knows who's who, and will fill the positions with people he knows and trusts.

#48 jeffismagic

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:21 PM

Scouting is something Beane was supposedly exceptional with - I don't have much doubt that he knows who's who, and will fill the positions with people he knows and trusts.

 

Really? I thought that was a weakness. Do you have any links where this is addressed?



#49 Heitz

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:28 PM

Really? I thought that was a weakness. Do you have any links where this is addressed?

 

http://www.buffaloru...ns-assistant-gm

 

Not sure it's a huge strength, but doesn't seem like a weakness either.

 

"Four years later, Beane took over as interim GM for the final 10 games after Hurney resigned. The Panthers went 6-4 while Beane held the post. More important than the record, Beane showed a knack for evaluating talent by plucking edge rusher Mario Addison from Washington’s practice squad and signing kicker Graham Gano."

 

 

"Beane had experience managing the salary cap, but hadn’t done a ton of scouting early in his career. But he started going on the road to scout college games when he was interim GM, a practice he continued after Gettleman was hired (Beane was the only in-house candidate to interview).

Beane further honed his scouting chops under Gettleman, whose affinity for film-study is as well known as his love of minivans and bagels.

Gettleman and Beane would watch video of every play from every Panthers game, as well as most of the plays of free agents Carolina was considering. Gettleman says Beane was an eager film critic.”

 

Also, in one of the articles after Beane was hired (can't find it now), it said that filling out his scouting staff was going to be an easy task, FWIW.  But hey, I know at TBD we like to stay worried! :beer:



#50 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:28 PM

They cleaned house, this is what happens. And they can certainly hire some of these guys back if the new GM wants them. Can't see anyone of them turning down a job to come back.

They can, unless those guys take jobs elsewhere. I'm sure that they will bring some back. They shouldn't have put the cart before the horse. There was nothing to be gained.

#51 jethro_tull

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:30 PM

and you dont think McD and Beane dont have a list before they decided to do this?

 

If we are gonna say we do a front office purge then we gotta have faith in the new guys that are brought in to not be so stupid as to not have a backup plan in place?

What if they weren't consulted?  What if THEY think it's a problem and was mishandled? 

How far does this set a team back?  

 

17 people is the better part of an MLB active roster, for example.  


Edited by jethro_tull, 13 May 2017 - 01:32 PM.


#52 jeffismagic

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:35 PM

 

http://www.buffaloru...ns-assistant-gm

 

Not sure it's a huge strength, but doesn't seem like a weakness either.

 

"Four years later, Beane took over as interim GM for the final 10 games after Hurney resigned. The Panthers went 6-4 while Beane held the post. More important than the record, Beane showed a knack for evaluating talent by plucking edge rusher Mario Addison from Washington’s practice squad and signing kicker Graham Gano."

 

 

"Beane had experience managing the salary cap, but hadn’t done a ton of scouting early in his career. But he started going on the road to scout college games when he was interim GM, a practice he continued after Gettleman was hired (Beane was the only in-house candidate to interview).

Beane further honed his scouting chops under Gettleman, whose affinity for film-study is as well known as his love of minivans and bagels.

Gettleman and Beane would watch video of every play from every Panthers game, as well as most of the plays of free agents Carolina was considering. Gettleman says Beane was an eager film critic.”

 

Also, in one of the articles after Beane was hired (can't find it now), it said that filling out his scouting staff was going to be an easy task, FWIW.  But hey, I know at TBD we like to stay worried! :beer:

 

A kicker and Addison? I don't think Beane was brought in to be the main talent scout. His competency seems to revolve around administration. Which is fine but Beane needs to bring in top talent scouts because I don't see him that way.

 

He also needs to create a vision for how the team will look. So far that is a big mystery but I haven't had time to listen to every Beane interview yet. 



#53 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:45 PM

Hopefully this example illustrates my point. It is a hypothetical but based on truth. Monos and Ryan Pace (Chicago) are VERY close. It's entirely possible that Pace calls Monos and asks him to come to Chicago. Monos could accept the job and say "you should bring these 5 guys too who were in Buffalo..." Now you have 6 of the best candidates, in an already diluted pool off the market. You controlled all 6 of them. Instead of the team electing who to keep they've relinquished the control to the scouts. If they held them through the Beane hiring he might have said "Jim, we'd love to keep you and any of the guys that you recommend."

#54 LabattBlue

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:01 PM

I hope people understand that teams can block their scouts from interviewing with the Bills. The candidate pool is out of work scouts and coaches. That doesn't seem like the best idea. The Bills shouldn't have fired the whole staff. That was really stupid. They should have fired the guys that weren't good. Now, even if they want some of those guys back they are free agents. Don't be mistaken, this is a PROBLEM.

As much as I am on board with the McD/Beane team, this was a major screwup.  Not sure whose decision it was(Pegula, McD, Overdorf, someone else), but it is almost impossible to defend.


I'm not a huge fan of the way the Pegula's have run their franchises thus far, but I so no issue with this. They'll hire enough scouts in time for the next college season. And we have scouting reports from the previous staff, that's proprietary property of the Buffalo Bills.

It's not a question of, can they fill all the vacant spots in the college & pro scouting ranks.  It is a question of, how many good scouts did they kick to the curb in this purge, and will all the newbies be better qualified than those they replaced.



#55 NewEra

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:02 PM

Blokes, Gunner, Bandit,...........


And BuffaloBud420 of course!! How could you forget him?

#56 Thurman#1

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:24 PM

Somehow the idea that the Bills just fired their entire scouting staff (17 people except for two in personnel) does not seem concerning to most people but I am worried that it is a huge deal, a huge hole.  

When has a team fired their entire scouting staff?  

       You can't just out source college and pro scouts to India or the Philippines (for example).  A team needs a trusted network of them, people that have relationships with the coach, GM and other team officials.  Trusted scouts are the worker bees that help build a successful team's foundation.    

       Most likely McD and the Beane have relationships and connections to some Scouts and will succeed in bringing them to the Bills- but it will not be enough.

I know that the previous scouts should be accountable in part for the lack of the team's success.  

But what the heck are they going to do next year?  Rely on Mayock, McShay and Walter Football?  

This is a big deal!   

 

 

 

Sure it is.

 

Now that they have a GM, they'll begin the process of addressing it.

 

Hopefully they'll do a good job. When we see what they do we should maybe talk about it.



#57 The Wiz

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:24 PM

 
A kicker and Addison? I don't think Beane was brought in to be the main talent scout. His competency seems to revolve around administration. Which is fine but Beane needs to bring in top talent scouts because I don't see him that way.
 
He also needs to create a vision for how the team will look. So far that is a big mystery but I haven't had time to listen to every Beane interview yet. 

He's not bringing in to scouts (unless they are top rookie scouts). I believe it was his interview on wgr after his announcement presser that they are going to bring in younger guys that they can mold into their plan or something along those lines.

I'll see if I can find it.

 

EDIT:  I was wrong, he was talking about players, not scouts.  Said he's been getting calls from scouts that want to work for him and will bring in guys from all over.  Would promote people to a better position if it was someone they really wanted to lure from another team.


Edited by The Wiz, 13 May 2017 - 02:37 PM.


#58 DriveFor1Outta5

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:28 PM

They cleaned house, this is what happens. And they can certainly hire some of these guys back if the new GM wants them. Can't see anyone of them turning down a job to come back.

I think it's a overreaction to believe that the dismissal of our scouts is going to destroy an already moribund franchise. That doesn't mean it wasn't an odd thing to do. It demonstrates the Pegulas lack of experience. Firing ones entire scouting department isn't something franchises regularly do. How often do businesses fire their entire workforce? Layoffs and restructuring happen in business. People sadly lose jobs due to this. However, it's rare to show everyone the door because it's a bad business decision. Firing everyone means you have to start from scratch. This immediately gives you a disadvantage. The Pegulas aren't doing anything to help their reputation.

#59 Marv's Neighbor

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:33 PM

The draft is over, there's plenty of time to reconstruct the scout staff.



#60 NoSaint

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:34 PM

I see
 
So if the bills go into next year and have a great draft will it still be a indefensable mistake?


You can come to the right answer using the wrong process and that doesn't mean it was the right process.