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Worried About the Scout Vacancies- Big Hole!


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#141 ndirish1978

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 05:49 PM

Sometimes you have good people in a bad environment and the best way for all parties to move forward is just to blow up that environment. If it was decided that the scouting department was a bit toxic I can absolutely deciding to blow up the whole team just to make sure none of the previous dysfunction remained. It seems like there's been a lot of the "blame game" going on at OBD for quite a while. If you really want to bring in a culture change you want to nip that stuff in the bud even if it means losing good people. 
 



#142 oldmanfan

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 05:53 PM

That's the only possible upside but I'd sacrifice some optics for control. I can buy that though as their line of thinking. At the same time how would he know if they were good or bad if he didn't interview or evaluate them first-hand?


It's a fairly small circle of people. I suspect McD and Beane knew who was good and bad.

#143 Greatdane21

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:26 PM

Who says some of the 17 let go can't be rehired, I'm sure they will find replacements ,it's basically a young mans job with tons of travel and plenty of cheeseburgers. Beanie will get it done

#144 Rochesterfan

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:42 PM

Somehow the idea that the Bills just fired their entire scouting staff (17 people except for two in personnel) does not seem concerning to most people but I am worried that it is a huge deal, a huge hole.  

When has a team fired their entire scouting staff?  

       You can't just out source college and pro scouts to India or the Philippines (for example).  A team needs a trusted network of them, people that have relationships with the coach, GM and other team officials.  Trusted scouts are the worker bees that help build a successful team's foundation.    

       Most likely McD and the Beane have relationships and connections to some Scouts and will succeed in bringing them to the Bills- but it will not be enough.

I know that the previous scouts should be accountable in part for the lack of the team's success.  

But what the heck are they going to do next year?  Rely on Mayock, McShay and Walter Football?  

This is a big deal!   

 

 

Seems like they are doing a pretty good job filling the holes.  

 

I don't think they are going to need to outsource or rely on Walter Football (shudders).

 

Never was a big deal.


We often agree on stuff like this, and no surprise we do here again. It's simply weighing the pros/cons of each path.

Keeping the guys was zero risk, but possible reward.

Dumping the guys was zero reward but possible risk.

Unless someone wants to make an argument that tips those scales somewhere I don't get how anyone can be more positive than "yea, it wasn't the best route but it might work out fine still." Similarly I don't think it's the end of the world, but it seems easy to call it the wrong choice regardless of outcome

 

 

I disagree totally - keeping the guys has risk - especially if you are trying to totally change what they are looking for or how you want them to scout.

 

You want to bring in guys with the same vision and guys that interview and understand the vision your are trying to put together.

 

Dumping the guys meant you had some work to do, but a good GM that has worked his way up has lots of contacts and knows what he is looking for.

 

Now we have brought in a huge group of guys sharing a vision and you know each of these guys have access to other individual scouts that can be brought in.

 

They are building their tree and it started with the GM and has sprouted and looks pretty darn good so far.


they had to keep overdorf longer than the scouts because they had to have someone in place to do contracts until Beane was hired. He's going to be gone too imo, as part of of the clean out.

 

i don't think it's about whether they are good, OldTime. They are Whaley's guys, used to a certain way. They want everyone brand new. No one saying "well we do it this way here"... it's a new organization now, tbh

 

 

This is spot on I think.



#145 Bill_with_it

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:43 PM

 
 
Seems like they are doing a pretty good job filling the holes.  
 
I don't think they are going to need to outsource or rely on Walter Football (shudders).
 
Never was a big deal.

 
 
I disagree totally - keeping the guys has risk - especially if you are trying to totally change what they are looking for or how you want them to scout.
 
You want to bring in guys with the same vision and guys that interview and understand the vision your are trying to put together.
 
Dumping the guys meant you had some work to do, but a good GM that has worked his way up has lots of contacts and knows what he is looking for.
 
Now we have brought in a huge group of guys sharing a vision and you know each of these guys have access to other individual scouts that can be brought in.
 
They are building their tree and it started with the GM and has sprouted and looks pretty darn good so far.


Yup this was explained to all the world is falling posters way back in this thread.

Anyone that believes that Mcdermott was hired and didnt know who the GM was going to be is living under a rock. I get it everyone hates Laconfora but he was dead on along time ago.

These people had a plan of one vision, its not suprising that its coming together quickly.

There were a ton of advantages in firing the staff right away.

#146 NoSaint

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:53 PM

 
 
Seems like they are doing a pretty good job filling the holes.  
 
I don't think they are going to need to outsource or rely on Walter Football (shudders).
 
Never was a big deal.

 
 
I disagree totally - keeping the guys has risk - especially if you are trying to totally change what they are looking for or how you want them to scout.
 
You want to bring in guys with the same vision and guys that interview and understand the vision your are trying to put together.
 
Dumping the guys meant you had some work to do, but a good GM that has worked his way up has lots of contacts and knows what he is looking for.
 
Now we have brought in a huge group of guys sharing a vision and you know each of these guys have access to other individual scouts that can be brought in.
 
They are building their tree and it started with the GM and has sprouted and looks pretty darn good so far.

 
 
This is spot on I think.


The point wasn't that you Keep them forever, simply that you let the GM decide instead of the owner. What's the risk of that?

#147 Rochesterfan

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:08 PM

The point wasn't that you Keep them forever, simply that you let the GM decide instead of the owner. What's the risk of that?

 

 

The risk is the time needed to make that decision.  We have no idea what was asked of the scouts prior to their dismissal or what McDermott looked at prior to this, but my feeling is he already had an idea of what he wanted and the vision and not one of those guys fit the future vision.

 

There was no upside to keeping old staff - the positions can be difficult to fill, but teams do this all the time.

 

Ideally in some business you interview the remaining staff and choose the best, but I think they had targets they wanted and wanted to move fast - people McD discussed weeks and months before this happened to bring his vision to Terry.

 

Do you risk losing a really good guy - yes, but you get the opportunity to have people that you want and are loyal to you only.



#148 Bill_with_it

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:35 PM

 
 
The risk is the time needed to make that decision.  We have no idea what was asked of the scouts prior to their dismissal or what McDermott looked at prior to this, but my feeling is he already had an idea of what he wanted and the vision and not one of those guys fit the future vision.
 
There was no upside to keeping old staff - the positions can be difficult to fill, but teams do this all the time.
 
Ideally in some business you interview the remaining staff and choose the best, but I think they had targets they wanted and wanted to move fast - people McD discussed weeks and months before this happened to bring his vision to Terry.
 
Do you risk losing a really good guy - yes, but you get the opportunity to have people that you want and are loyal to you only.


Theres only so many ways you can state the same thing. There are alot that have a difficult time at something as easy as was stated here and all throughout the thread previously.

#149 aristocrat

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:37 PM

My one Buddy who was a bills scout got hired immediately for a certain afc south team Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#150 NoSaint

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:40 PM

Theres only so many ways you can state the same thing. There are alot that have a difficult time at something as easy as was stated here and all throughout the thread previously.


Don't worry, we understand the feeling too. Ultimately it's not a big deal either way though.

Your argument isn't complex or hard to understand, I simply disagree with your conclusion.

#151 Augie

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:40 PM

My one Buddy who was a bills scout got hired immediately for a certain afc south team


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for him, glad he landed on his feet quickly. Hope it was the Titans, I love Nashville!

#152 JTO

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:15 PM

Yes

#153 YoloinOhio

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:04 PM

Good for him, glad he landed on his feet quickly. Hope it was the Titans, I love Nashville!

it was the Titans
Tom Roth?

#154 Augie

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:07 PM

it was the Titans


I'll be there this weekend. :)

That was the best Bills away game I've ever been to. (Had we beaten the Redskins in the SB, well.....) Really enjoyed the experience in Nashville. Ubered there and then back from downtown after a lovely walk over the pedestrian bridge and a stroll on Broadway. It seems they are putting a real team together too. And their hockey doesn't suck! I hadn't been to an NHL game in forever until earlier this season. Also a rockin' experience!

#155 John from Hemet

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:08 PM

Would like to get Kirby's thoughts on the latest hires

 

(this isnt meant as a slam at you Kirby...I really do value your opinion and I know you were concerned about ti)



#156 YoloinOhio

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:17 PM

Would like to get Kirby's thoughts on the latest hires
 
(this isnt meant as a slam at you Kirby...I really do value your opinion and I know you were concerned about ti)

agree. I also value Kirby's insight and opinion.

#157 Augie

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:24 PM

agree. I also value Kirby's insight and opinion.


I don't mean to pile on and give him a big head, but......yeah. I tend to like these hires though I really don't know any more than the press realeses. How do they compare to what left the building?

#158 Rochesterfan

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:52 AM

agree. I also value Kirby's insight and opinion.

I have not been here long and I agree - he really seems to have some good opinions and doesn't automatically go to extremes.

I really understand what he and NoSaint are saying - the decision on how to fill those roles should be made by the GM ultimately.

My feeling is that McD and Beane have had this discussion during their many runs over the years (not in regards to Buffalo - just in general) and have talked about how they want to fill a FO. I also suspect that McD talked with Beane specifically about Buffalo after McD was interviewed/hired and building a ground up structure from scratch was probably appealing.

I in no way believe the task was easy or that some of the guys the Bills had in place were not good, but I think that was one of the things the Pegulas liked about McD - I think he already had a plan and a list of names for many top positions and therefore although the firing came before Beane was officially hired - I believe he had some influence on McD and that was all part of the decision.

Edited by Rochesterfan, 19 May 2017 - 04:53 AM.


#159 Kemp2Warlick

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:09 PM

We've hired five new scouts. Learn more about our new additions: http://bufbills.co/wsjYSL 



#160 Heitz

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:43 PM

 

We've hired five new scouts. Learn more about our new additions: http://bufbills.co/wsjYSL 

 

 

So we brought back three of the guys we fired?  

 

Gerald Dixon was hired as a Pro Scout, Brian Fisher was hired as a Midwest college scout and Doug Majeski was named West Area Scout. All three men had been part of the Bills scouting department previously. Dixon first joined the Bills in 2014 as a Pro Scout. Meanwhile Fisher spent a decade with the Bills after he was first hired in 2007 as a college scout.  Majeski will enter his 28th season with the Bills.


Edited by Heitz, 19 May 2017 - 05:44 PM.