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Whaley wants Cardale to be 2017 starter


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#421 FireChan

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:03 AM

The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Whaley or Rex's roster building philosophy or strategy is. Teams have succeeded with different philosophies and strategies.  That's not the issue. Rex was a bad coach who couldn't get his players to play his complicated and outdated system. He was more determined to force his players to adjust to his system rather than adjust his system to the players limitations and strengths. 

 

Rex was an undisciplined person that was reflected in his chaotic coaching. The record in Buffalo and the downward spiral that happened in Buffalo was similar to what happened in NY. The longer he coached, wherever he was, the worse his team performed. 

 

Coaching matters. That was blatantly demonstrated in the two years that the corpulent coach was here. With his departure it is addition by subtraction. I'm very encouraged with the new more silent hire. There is no quick fix for the damage done to this team by the former obtuse HC. 

Bold take from a guy who just said

The Rex hire was a Pegula hire. It was widely reported that Doug favored Hue Jackson. Saying that Whaley and Rex had the same idea about building a team is like saying that there was little difference between Trump and Hillary. It is a ludicrous idea. Rex's idea of building a roster is like Calvin Coolidge's view of running the government: very outdated and disastrous.  

 

 

Dougie disagrees.



#422 Bill from NYC

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:07 PM

The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Whaley or Rex's roster building philosophy or strategy is. Teams have succeeded with different philosophies and strategies.  That's not the issue. Rex was a bad coach who couldn't get his players to play his complicated and outdated system. He was more determined to force his players to adjust to his system rather than adjust his system to the players limitations and strengths. 

 

Rex was an undisciplined person that was reflected in his chaotic coaching. The record in Buffalo and the downward spiral that happened in Buffalo was similar to what happened in NY. The longer he coached, wherever he was, the worse his team performed. 

 

Coaching matters. That was blatantly demonstrated in the two years that the corpulent coach was here. With his departure it is addition by subtraction. I'm very encouraged with the new more silent hire. There is no quick fix for the damage done to this team by the former obtuse HC. 

Whaley put this team in a hole with the foolish, wasteful contracts and squandered draft picks. Rex made matters that much worse.

 

Your post rightfully points fingers at Rex who was a disaster from day 1. Still, Whaley was as undisciplined as Rex.


 

I've given people an example of this on multiple occasions.  I'm baffled to this day, as to how a coach takes a pass rushing defensive tackle in Dareus with a $95m contract and turn him into a run stuffing nose tackle.  It is beyond mind numbing, unless you concede your very statement above.  

And then he sent this 350 lb. man into pass coverage.



#423 thebandit27

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:21 PM

 

And then he sent this 350 lb. man into pass coverage.

 

9 times the entire season



#424 Bill from NYC

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:27 PM

 

9 times the entire season

I'm sure this doesn't include the numerous times he just stood there dancing and futilely waving his arms.

 

Rex and his bad defense were both an utter disgrace.



#425 thebandit27

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:34 PM

I'm sure this doesn't include the numerous times he just stood there dancing and futilely waving his arms.

 

Rex and his bad defense were both an utter disgrace.

 

Obviously Rex didn't get the job done; that doesn't mean we need to overstate the situation.

 

His need to have a bajillion checks and re-checks that need to be communicated within milliseconds between offensive adjustments and snaps is what doomed the defense.

 

That Dareus dropped into coverage a total of 9 times didn't.


Context:

 

http://www.cover1.ne...defensive-line/



#426 K-9

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:41 PM

That Dareus dropped into coverage a total of 9 times didn't.Context:
 
http://www.cover1.ne...defensive-line/


We can also use context for those that keep trotting out the tired line about how Ryan made Dareus a nose tackle.

#427 eball

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:57 PM

The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Whaley or Rex's roster building philosophy or strategy is. Teams have succeeded with different philosophies and strategies.  That's not the issue. Rex was a bad coach who couldn't get his players to play his complicated and outdated system. He was more determined to force his players to adjust to his system rather than adjust his system to the players limitations and strengths. 

 

Rex was an undisciplined person that was reflected in his chaotic coaching. The record in Buffalo and the downward spiral that happened in Buffalo was similar to what happened in NY. The longer he coached, wherever he was, the worse his team performed. 

 

Coaching matters. That was blatantly demonstrated in the two years that the corpulent coach was here. With his departure it is addition by subtraction. I'm very encouraged with the new more silent hire. There is no quick fix for the damage done to this team by the former obtuse HC. 

 

I can't begin to apologize enough for not accepting your wisdom when Rex was hired.



#428 #BADOL

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:58 PM

We can also use context for those that keep trotting out the tired line about how Ryan made Dareus a nose tackle.

 

The main issue was the two-gap approach with a guy who is very dangerous and impactful as a pass rusher.

 

Nose tackle or simply more added gap responsibility matters not.

 

Dareus, when in decent condition and allowed to penetrate is actually a good enough athlete to be a good pass rushing LDE and an absolute monster 10-12+ sack pass rusher from the inside......as he was under Pettine and Schwartz.

 

He's a playmaker and was basically asked to be a clogger.



#429 Bill from NYC

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:00 PM

 

I can't begin to apologize enough for not accepting your wisdom when Rex was hired.

John C. is frequently on the money and has been for years. :thumbsup:

 

Sadly, he will soon be apologizing to me for saying that Whaley is anything near adequate. :oops:  ;)


Edited by Bill from NYC, 16 February 2017 - 03:01 PM.


#430 JohnC

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:01 PM

Bold take from a guy who just said

 

 

Dougie disagrees.

You are either distorting what I said or misinterpreting what I said. The point is simple and obvious. It doesn't matter what system you have if the coach is inept. That's the point! Whether the GM and the HC are in accord or not in what system should be run isn't as consequential as the HC being so grossly inept that the team is not going to play up to its talent level.  That's a simple point that should be within everyone's grasp. Not trying to be surly but what's obvious is obvious. You are digging too deep when you only need to be close to the surface.  



#431 FireChan

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:05 PM

You are either distorting what I said or misinterpreting what I said. The point is simple and obvious. It doesn't matter what system you have if the coach is inept. That's the point! Whether the GM and the HC are in accord or not in what system should be run isn't as consequential as the HC being so grossly inept that the team is not going to play up to its talent level.  That's a simple point that should be within everyone's grasp. Not trying to be surly but what's obvious is obvious. You are digging too deep when you only need to be close to the surface.  

You are giving Whaley a pass he does not deserve.



#432 eball

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:06 PM

You are giving Whaley a pass he does not deserve.

 

Well, that's an opinion, not a fact, so just agree to disagree.



#433 JohnC

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:16 PM

 

I can't begin to apologize enough for not accepting your wisdom when Rex was hired.

No need to apologize. You have always been classy and smart with your posts. 

 

Many people were very upset when Marrone departed in his ignominious way. They allowed that departure to cloud their view of the incoming HC. The disarray that was seen in Buffalo was the exact disarray that was seen in NY. This was an owner mistake. On the flip side the owner acted quickly and decisively to correct his mistake before more damage could be done to his team.

 

Rex is the son of Buddy Ryan. They come from the same tree. Brash talking that eventually gets tiresome when the losing and chaos mounts. 

 

Let me add that I am very happy with the new HC, McDermott, and the wisdom he has shown by putting together an experienced staff. Compare that to Buddy bringing in his sloppy looking brother to add another layer of confusion and stupidity? There is no quick fix to the setbacks caused by the Buddy storm. But with this incoming staff a culture of accountability and maturity will be established. That in itself is progress.   



#434 ScottLaw

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:19 PM

No need to apologize. You have always been classy and smart with your posts. 
 
Many people were very upset when Marrone departed in his ignominious way. They allowed that departure to cloud their view of the incoming HC. The disarray that was seen in Buffalo was the exact disarray that was seen in NY. This was an owner mistake. On the flip side the owner acted quickly and decisively to correct his mistake before more damage could be done to his team.
 
Rex is the son of Buddy Ryan. They come from the same tree. Brash talking that eventually gets tiresome when the losing and chaos mounts. 
 
Let me add that I am very happy with the new HC, McDermott, and the wisdom he has shown by putting together an experienced staff. Compare that to Buddy bringing in his sloppy looking brother to add another layer of confusion and stupidity? There is no quick fix to the setbacks caused by the Buddy storm. But with this incoming staff a culture of accountability and maturity will be established. That in itself is progress.   

While it was a mess in NY Rex actually gave a **** there(up until maybe his last year when he knew he was !@#$ed) and put together some good coaching seasons.

Here it came across as if he rarely put the effort in week in and week out and was merely in it for the large pay check as his coaching blew.

Edited by ScottLaw, 16 February 2017 - 03:20 PM.


#435 JohnC

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:20 PM

You are giving Whaley a pass he does not deserve.

You act as if I am a fawning devotee of him. That is not the case. I have given him a C to C plus grade and considered him a solid but not close to being a top tier GM. If he doesn't come up with a franchise qb in this draft or the next I will be leading the pack to have him fired. 

 

I consider my judgment on him to be fair and reasonable. It you think otherwise then so be it. 



#436 JohnC

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:32 PM

While it was a mess in NY Rex actually gave a **** there(up until maybe his last year when he knew he was !@#$ed) and put together some good coaching seasons.

Here it came across as if he rarely put the effort in week in and week out and was merely in it for the large pay check as his coaching blew.

My overview of him in NY from a big picture standpoint was that he was a failure. His teams steadily got worse. That is not to say that he didn't put in the effort compared to his lackadaisical approach he took with the Bills (as you pointed out). 

 

Rex lost his desire to coach when he was with Buffalo. What accelerated that loss of motivation was that the product on the field that was visible to everyone couldn't be hidden with his tiresome bravado. He was exposed to what he was: a mediocre coach. His claim to fame was his defense, yet the defense was being gashed to the point that it was being mocked.  

 

There need not be a penetrating analysis of the Rex era and what went wrong. He was a bad hire and it was demonstrated by his work product. Instead of leaving town with class and his pockets full of green backs he had to make excuses and classless comments. Rex is Rex. He certainly is not known for his thoughtful comments. 

 

Simply put I'm glad he is gone. And I'm excited with the new coaching staff. As I said in a prior post Rex set this franchise back and it is going to take time to repair the damage. 



#437 #BADOL

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:48 PM

No need to apologize. You have always been classy and smart with your posts. 

 

Many people were very upset when Marrone departed in his ignominious way. They allowed that departure to cloud their view of the incoming HC. The disarray that was seen in Buffalo was the exact disarray that was seen in NY. This was an owner mistake. On the flip side the owner acted quickly and decisively to correct his mistake before more damage could be done to his team.

 

Rex is the son of Buddy Ryan. They come from the same tree. Brash talking that eventually gets tiresome when the losing and chaos mounts. 

 

Let me add that I am very happy with the new HC, McDermott, and the wisdom he has shown by putting together an experienced staff. Compare that to Buddy bringing in his sloppy looking brother to add another layer of confusion and stupidity? There is no quick fix to the setbacks caused by the Buddy storm. But with this incoming staff a culture of accountability and maturity will be established. That in itself is progress.   

 

 

If you say so.

 

Getting accountability and maturity out of players requires coaches who get players to buy in by putting them in position to succeed.

 

It's a two way street and this HC has never been a HC anywhere before and the OC and DC have their detractors so they will have to put up or shut up........especially with this tainted team.



#438 JohnC

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:57 PM

John C. is frequently on the money and has been for years. :thumbsup:

 

Sadly, he will soon be apologizing to me for saying that Whaley is anything near adequate. :oops:  ;)

New York City living is a grind. It has made you irascible and a provocateur! :D

 

If Whaley doesn't address the qb position soon I'm going to be riding the same train that you are riding on. Do you have an extra tokens or do I have to jump the turnstile?  :pirate: