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If the Bills intentional tank the season DW should be fired


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#41 re enlightener

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 12:36 PM

I'm on board with this. The defense is to stacked to be doing a tank with Cardale starting, if this is his guy.

 

DW is a waste of GM imo.

 

Just say no to the tank.

so youre on board with your own post?   good to know.  

 

also...duh.



#42 DriveFor1Outta5

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 12:40 PM

Ya realistically Von Miller. Would have been nice having one of the best defenders in the league. But thank god we got hot at the end of that 2010 season, we needed those 4 wins.....

This is the problem with people who think tanking makes sense in the NFL. Sure we won 4 meaningless games but we still had the number three pick. We got Dareus out of it. If you feel we needed to do better guys drafted after Dareus included Julio Jones, JJ Watt, and AJ Green. You don't always need a top 5 pick to build a team. You just need a good front office. The idea of "purgatory" is just a phrase created by this franchise to cover for their incompetence.

No it didn't.  The Bills were absolute morons that year.  They were 2-10 and won 2 games that put them squarely with the #3 overall pick.  If we hadn't been morons, we could've had Von Miller, if not Cam.

We still could have had Julio Jones,JJ Watt, or AJ Green if you don't like Dareus.Receiver was a need at the time as well, but this team never seems to draft for need. That's an entirely separate philosophical debate though.

Edited by DriveFor1Outta5, 15 February 2017 - 12:41 PM.


#43 FireChan

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:11 PM

This is the problem with people who think tanking makes sense in the NFL. Sure we won 4 meaningless games but we still had the number three pick. We got Dareus out of it. If you feel we needed to do better guys drafted after Dareus included Julio Jones, JJ Watt, and AJ Green. You don't always need a top 5 pick to build a team. You just need a good front office. The idea of "purgatory" is just a phrase created by this franchise to cover for their incompetence.
We still could have had Julio Jones,JJ Watt, or AJ Green if you don't like Dareus.Receiver was a need at the time as well, but this team never seems to draft for need. That's an entirely separate philosophical debate though.

No one knew JJ Watt would've been JJ Watt.

 

We had a defense utterly bereft of talent in 2011 and needed a talent infusion from stars.  Saying we didn't "need" Dareus is not true.



#44 Billznut

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:19 PM

Pegs would have to approve of a tank job and be looking long term, so why would he fire the GM for carrying out that plan?

Pegula did exactly this move with GM Darcy Regier and the Sabres

#45 DriveFor1Outta5

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:28 PM

No one knew JJ Watt would've been JJ Watt.
 
We had a defense utterly bereft of talent in 2011 and needed a talent infusion from stars.  Saying we didn't "need" Dareus is not true.

No one knows that a lot of the guys will become the best players. That's the problem with "tanking". You don't guarantee yourself all that much with top 5 picks in the NFL. Look at where many of the best QB's in the game were drafted. It's quite often not with top 5 picks. As far as Dareus is concerned we did already have Kyle Williams, and if I recall our receivers were a joke. Hindsight is 20/20 though. I'm not criticizing the Dareus selection. The entire team was "bereft" of talent in 2011. I'm just saying that if you claim the four wins in 2010 hurt this franchise that's simplifying matters too much. We didn't get Von Miller but there were a few great players selected after him. So imo you can't really blame those wins for our misfortunes.

Edited by DriveFor1Outta5, 15 February 2017 - 01:30 PM.


#46 FireChan

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:31 PM

No one knows that a lot of the guys will become the best players. That's the problem with "tanking". You don't guarantee yourself all that much with top 5 picks in the NFL. Look at where many of the best QB's in the game were drafted. It's quite often not with top 5 picks. As far as Dareus is concerned we did already have Kyle Williams, and if I recall our receivers were a joke. Hindsight is 20/20 though. I'm not criticizing the Dareus selection. I'm just saying that if you claim the four wins in 2010 hurt this franchise that's simplifying matters too much. We didn't get Von Miller but there were a few great players selected after him. So imo you can't really blame those wins for our misfortunes.

I mean, if we only won 1 of 4 we would've gotten Cam.  You know, the guy who set rookie QB records, won MVP and went to a Super Bowl?

 

We guaranteed not getting Cam and Luck by not having the #1 overall pick.  We guaranteed not getting the highest ranked defensive player in the 2011 draft by not getting #2. 

 

If you get #1, you can pick anybody.  You can't "miss out" on guys.  If you draft a bust, it's because your player evaluation sucks, not because some other team got the player you really wanted.

 

It makes thing simple.


Edited by FireChan, 15 February 2017 - 01:33 PM.


#47 Augie

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:31 PM

If the Bills tank, Whaley probably has more time, otherwise why would he tank?


This thread could have ended with this, one minute in. :)

#48 ndirish1978

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:35 PM

Oh DW will trade away player like Dareus and sabotage the team, i have faith in that.

 

Instead of manning up and realizing he has no idea what hes doing he'll take this team with him.

 

Step away from the ledge. Also, to echo the point that multiple posters have already made: a tank is evidence he's not going anywhere. 


Edited by ndirish1978, 15 February 2017 - 01:36 PM.


#49 TheFunPolice

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:37 PM

How about we make the playoffs for the first time in a generation?

People 21 and younger have no memory of this team ever being good.

Pegula has to want owning a team to be fun at some point.

#50 DriveFor1Outta5

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:41 PM

I mean, if we only won 1 of 4 we would've gotten Cam.  You know, the guy who set rookie QB records, won MVP and went to a Super Bowl?
 
We guaranteed not getting Cam and Luck by not having the #1 overall pick.  We guaranteed not getting the highest ranked defensive player in the 2011 draft by not getting #2. 
 
If you get #1, you can pick anybody.  You can't "miss out" on guys.  If you draft a bust, it's because your player evaluation sucks, not because some other team got the player you really wanted.
 
It makes thing simple.

If you can't "miss out" how come we didn't draft Wilson,Dalton,Cousins or Prescott? Teams miss out all the time. Drafting a QB number one overall is no guarantee. Plenty of people thought that David Carr and Ryan Lead would never be a bust. Otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted number one overall. Player evaluation is not a perfect science. The majority of great NFL QB's were not drafted number one overall. That is the way it worked worked back in the 70s and 80s. It's simply no longer true. The Bills need to actually draft QB's in order to find one. We aren't missing out because we win a few games. We miss out because our front office is a joke. The Browns win less than we do, and their joke of franchise can't get it right either.

#51 FireChan

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:45 PM

If you can't "miss out" how come we didn't draft Wilson,Dalton,Cousins or Prescott? Teams miss out all the time. Drafting a QB number one overall is no guarantee. Plenty of people thought that David Carr and Ryan Lead would never be a bust. Otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted number one overall. Player evaluation is not a perfect science. The majority of great NFL QB's were not drafted number one overall. That is the way it worked worked back in the 70s and 80s. It's simply no longer true. The Bills need to actually draft QB's in order to find one. We aren't missing out because we win a few games. We miss out because our front office is a joke. The Browns win less than we do, and their joke of franchise can't get it right either.

You misunderstand.  I meant "miss out" as a team drafts a player before you can.

 

The Bills absolutely need to draft more QB's.  And draft them high.

 

The Browns don't draft enough QB's either.



#52 DriveFor1Outta5

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:11 PM

You misunderstand.  I meant "miss out" as a team drafts a player before you can.
 
The Bills absolutely need to draft more QB's.  And draft them high.
 
The Browns don't draft enough QB's either.

That makes sense. I just believe that with the number one pick teams miss out a lot. The NFL draft is supposed to create parody. It doesn't really work that way all the time. More often than not the same bottom feeder teams are the top of the draft board. The great franchises remain great with late round picks. That's why I'm not ever going to blame this playoff drought on poor draft position.

#53 FireChan

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:12 PM

That makes sense. I just believe that with the number one pick teams miss out a lot. The NFL draft is supposed to create parody. It doesn't really work that way all the time. More often than not the same bottom feeder teams are the top of the draft board. The great franchises remain great with late round picks. That's why I'm not ever going to blame this playoff drought on poor draft position.

They don't take enough QBs or lose hard enough, generally.

Wentz is a promising young QB, Browns ditched him. They didn't get the #1 or 2 when Winston and Mariota were there.

It's a combo of unlucky and stupid.

Edited by FireChan, 15 February 2017 - 02:13 PM.


#54 ndirish1978

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:15 PM

ok so we all agree the plan this year should be to draft 6 QBs, to ensure we don't miss out.



#55 DrDareustein

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:17 PM

This thread makes zero logical sense.

 

If "the Bills" intentionally tank... The Pegulas are included in "the Bills", that means they would be on-board with the strategy and expect to lose, and Doug and McDermott would get a pass.

 

Ah, the offseason. This is gonna be a long one.



#56 DriveFor1Outta5

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:20 PM

They don't take enough QBs or lose hard enough, generally.

Wentz is a promising young QB, Browns ditched him. They didn't get the #1 or 2 when Winston and Mariota were there.

It's a combo of unlucky and stupid.

I'm ok with that line of thought. I just don't think you need the number 1 or 2 pick to build a winner. Franchises like the Packers and the Cowboys built themselves soild long term hopes while still winning. They never had number one or two draft choices. They just made soild team building decisions, and continued to be winners.

#57 FireChan

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:26 PM

I'm ok with that line of thought. I just don't think you need the number 1 or 2 pick to build a winner. Franchises like the Packers and the Cowboys built themselves soild long term hopes while still winning. They never had number one or two draft choices. They just made soild team building decisions, and continued to be winners.

Nah you don't.  But having it when it's a Luck, Cam, Jameis, Winston, Mariota, Manning, Elway, Eli, Big Ben, year makes it way easier.



#58 GunnerBill

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:11 PM

 
 
Not choosing Tyrod with that contract isn't a tank, it's one of the very logical ways to proceed.
 
And the difference between Tyrod and someone else is probably 2 - 3 games. Maybe.
 
If you bring Tyrod back at that salary, it can't be for one or two years. He'd be the most expensive bridge QB in history. It's got to be that you're committing to him. IMHO that just doesn't make sense.


You would think wouldn't you Thurman? I'm still not understanding really how $40m for 2 years for a bridge QB is anything other than foolish. And before people say "it's not $40m for 2 years..." okay well the alternative is $30m for one year. And that is all despite my gut saying "don't make yourself intentionally worse at Quarterback."

Now the people who think Tyrod is better than a bridge I have respect for that view. I don't agree with it necessarily but I see it.

The people who don't think he is better than a low end game manager and bridge Quarterback but still want to keep him in case the alternative is a couple of wins worse in 2017? Yea I don't understand them at all.

#59 Commonsense

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:15 PM

Jay Ayaji agrees. The defense is stacked.

#60 Jauronimo

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:27 PM

That makes sense. I just believe that with the number one pick teams miss out a lot. The NFL draft is supposed to create parody. It doesn't really work that way all the time. More often than not the same bottom feeder teams are the top of the draft board. The great franchises remain great with late round picks. That's why I'm not ever going to blame this playoff drought on poor draft position.

It did in Cleveland.