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Venezuela's Fall Into Dictatorship


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#41 gatorbait

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 06:42 AM

 
"Please no stare at the dead bambinos, senor comrade"
 
5 Ways Capitalist Chile is Much Better Than Socialist Venezuela
 
"The story of Chiles success starts in the mid-1970s, when Chiles military government abandoned socialism and started to implement economic reforms. In 2013, Chile was the worlds 10th freest economy. Venezuela, in the meantime, declined from being the worlds 10th freest economy in 1975 to being the worlds least free economy in 2013" 
 
There's big colorful "graphs" which are like coloring and pictures all in one....
http://humanprogress...alist-venezuela

Venezuela is a mess and averages about 60 murders a day. To use that as your benchmark, when there are numerous better examples, makes you look foolish. They are much smaller, much more unstable and much more corrupt. They don't have the same kinds of checks and balances like we do here. Trump is about as close to a dictator as America will probably ever have.

For the 10th time, so you cavemen understand it. Show me, where did I say we need to be socialist? I want our taxes to cover quality healthcare and education. And I want us to be ranked in the top 10 globally, like we used to be in those two areas. Free markets, businesses and capitalism are fine, but we can do better in some areas.

Edited by gatorbait, 03 April 2017 - 07:08 AM.


#42 snafu

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:12 AM

Venezuela is a mess and averages about 60 murders a day. To use that as your benchmark, when there are numerous better examples, makes you look foolish.
For the 10th time, so you caveman understand it. Show me, where did I say we need to be socialist? I want our taxes to cover quality healthcare and education. And I want us to be ranked in the top 10 globally, like we used to be in those two areas. Free markets, businesses and capitalism are fine, but we can do better in some areas.


Healthcare and education are not federal matters to legislate, according to the Constitution. For the federal government to make healthcare a mandate across state lines is a slide toward socialism. I'm not saying that this isn't an admirable goal, but it doesn't fit into the way our respective federal and state governments have been set up and maintained. Ask yourself when the US was ranked in the top 10 globally in healthcare (I don't know if we are or are not -- I'm just going with your premise). What changed? Who took over running that show?

#43 gatorbait

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:36 AM

Healthcare and education are not federal matters to legislate, according to the Constitution. For the federal government to make healthcare a mandate across state lines is a slide toward socialism. I'm not saying that this isn't an admirable goal, but it doesn't fit into the way our respective federal and state governments have been set up and maintained. Ask yourself when the US was ranked in the top 10 globally in healthcare (I don't know if we are or are not -- I'm just going with your premise). What changed? Who took over running that show?

The quality of care the average American receives isn't close to being near the top, same with regards to education. I don't want a mandate, I want a basic universal level of care provided through our taxes. Hundreds of years ago when they wrote the constitution, healthcare wasn't a right like it is becoming now. The rich will still have better private insurance, with access to the best surgeons and doctors, and first class concierge services.

Think about becoming a teacher these days, it isn't desirable at all. They need more support, better pay and benefits to attract better talent. New York actually takes care of their educators compared to Florida but it is getting worse. Standardized education right now gets students to take standardized tests; it doesn't prepare them for the real world or make them as truly educated as they could be.

My ideas are radical around here, and I have already admitted universal healthcare is a step towards socialism. I just want to progress, not stay stagnant or go backwards. We don't have to become socialist by having single payer healthcare, but I understand everyone's argument. Except for richstadiumowner. Let's not forget about "social" security, and all the other programs. Does that make us closer to Nazi Germany or Venezuela?

Edited by gatorbait, 03 April 2017 - 07:41 AM.


#44 GG

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:12 AM

 Trump is about as close to a dictator as America will probably ever have.
 

 

Prove it.



#45 TakeYouToTasker

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:15 AM

The quality of care the average American receives isn't close to being near the top, same with regards to education. I don't want a mandate, I want a basic universal level of care provided through our taxes. Hundreds of years ago when they wrote the constitution, healthcare wasn't a right like it is becoming now. The rich will still have better private insurance, with access to the best surgeons and doctors, and first class concierge services.

Think about becoming a teacher these days, it isn't desirable at all. They need more support, better pay and benefits to attract better talent. New York actually takes care of their educators compared to Florida but it is getting worse. Standardized education right now gets students to take standardized tests; it doesn't prepare them for the real world or make them as truly educated as they could be.

My ideas are radical around here, and I have already admitted universal healthcare is a step towards socialism. I just want to progress, not stay stagnant or go backwards. We don't have to become socialist by having single payer healthcare, but I understand everyone's argument. Except for richstadiumowner. Let's not forget about "social" security, and all the other programs. Does that make us closer to Nazi Germany or Venezuela?

How can something that is finite, and that requires the resources and labor of others in order to obtain, be a right?

 

A right is something which requires only the inaction of others in order to exercise.


Edited by TakeYouToTasker, 03 April 2017 - 08:15 AM.


#46 grinreaper

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:15 AM

The quality of care the average American receives isn't close to being near the top, same with regards to education. I don't want a mandate, I want a basic universal level of care provided through our taxes. Hundreds of years ago when they wrote the constitution, healthcare wasn't a right like it is becoming now. The rich will still have better private insurance, with access to the best surgeons and doctors, and first class concierge services.

Think about becoming a teacher these days, it isn't desirable at all. They need more support, better pay and benefits to attract better talent. New York actually takes care of their educators compared to Florida but it is getting worse. Standardized education right now gets students to take standardized tests; it doesn't prepare them for the real world or make them as truly educated as they could be.

My ideas are radical around here, and I have already admitted universal healthcare is a step towards socialism. I just want to progress, not stay stagnant or go backwards. We don't have to become socialist by having single payer healthcare, but I understand everyone's argument. Except for richstadiumowner. Let's not forget about "social" security, and all the other programs. Does that make us closer to Nazi Germany or Venezuela?

I get it. You are not a socialist, but only want us to move toward socialism.



#47 Boyst62

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:16 AM

Huh? Wtf are you talking about? The average IQ in America is 98, so that means the average IQ on here is probably 98. That is scary and sad.

https://www.google.c...in-america.html

Most of the 10 dumbest states in America are red states, go figure.

if that's true, than I got the average beat by like 40 points. !@#$ yeah, I'm samrt

#48 gatorbait

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:27 AM

 
Prove it.

If everyone around here had to prove every opinion they had, we would never get anything done at work.

#49 TakeYouToTasker

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:29 AM

If everyone around here had to prove every opinion they had, we would never get anything done at work.

The better posters here do exactly that.



#50 GG

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:29 AM

If everyone around here had to prove every opinion they had, we would never get anything done at work.

 

So keep on spouting stupid comments and get pummeled because of them



#51 gatorbait

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:30 AM

How can something that is finite, and that requires the resources and labor of others in order to obtain, be a right?
 
A right is something which requires only the inaction of others in order to exercise.

I have radical ideas. Would it surprise you that we are the only major advanced nation that doesn't guarantee their citizens some basic form of healthcare? They look at it as a basic right, so their citizens can prosper and live a fuller life.

 
So keep on spouting stupid comments and get pummeled because of them

Sounds good to me. When we go to single payer in the next decade or two, you can thank me for warning you about it now.

#52 GG

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:32 AM

I have radical ideas. Would it surprise you that we are the only major advanced nation that doesn't guarantee their citizens some basic form of healthcare? They look at it as a basic right, so their citizens can prosper and live a fuller life.
Sounds good to me. When we go to single payer in the next decade or two, you can thank me for warning you about it now.

 

How many times does it need to be explained to you that single payer will not solve the primary issue with US healthcare delivery?  It's stupid to compare the US health statistics with other countries and then thinking that the magic wand of single payer is going to fix the fundamental problem of why US residents get sick.

 

Do your f'ng homework, Sue.



#53 TakeYouToTasker

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:34 AM

I have radical ideas. Would it surprise you that we are the only major advanced nation that doesn't guarantee their citizens some basic form of healthcare? They look at it as a basic right, so their citizens can prosper and live a fuller life.

You didn't answer my question.

 

How can something be a right if:

 

a) there is a limited supply of it

b) it requires the resources and labor of others

 

If we "run out of care", because it is a finite resource, how can one claim a right to something that doesn't exist?

 

If something requires the labor and resources of others in order to produce, what happens if (when) they decide to stop producing it? 



#54 Boyst62

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:36 AM

Do your f'ng homework, Sue.

Jesus Christ that is funny

#55 gatorbait

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:40 AM

 
How many times does it need to be explained to you that single payer will not solve the primary issue with US healthcare delivery?  It's stupid to compare the US health statistics with other countries and then thinking that the magic wand of single payer is going to fix the fundamental problem of why US residents get sick.
 
Do your f'ng homework, Sue.

Babe, you need to do your homework. Single payer will standardize costs and reimbursements. As a result, that will bring costs down. Taking the power to set prices away from pharm and insurance companies will bring the costs down. Having every facility switch to EMRs that can be shared with different facilities will increase quality. Doctors will no longer be sued for malpractice, but will lose their license if they produce repeated negative results. That will also increase quality and bring their rates down, so they won't have to charge more to cover their back end. Medical ID cards like in France will have your whole medical history, medical allergies, and other things to promote synergy and increase quality. Having a healthier population where everyone gets regular checkups and cares more about preventative care will lower costs and increase quality. There are tons of other benefits of going to single payer. Lobbyists and corporations have too much political power, we need to start doing what's better for us, not them.

Edited by gatorbait, 03 April 2017 - 08:42 AM.


#56 GG

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:45 AM

Babe, you need to do your homework. Single payer will standardize costs and reimbursements. As a result, that will bring costs down. Taking the power to set prices away from pharm and insurance companies will bring the costs down. Having every facility switch to EMRs that can be shared with different facilities will increase quality. Doctors will no longer be sued for malpractice, but will lose their license if they produce repeated negative results. That will also increase quality and bring their rates down, so they won't have to charge more to cover their back end. Medical ID cards like in France will have your whole medical history, medical allergies, and other things to promote synergy and increase quality. Having a healthier population where everyone gets regular checkups and cares more about preventative care will lower costs and increase quality. There are tons of other benefits of going to single payer. Lobbyists and corporations have too much political power, we need to start doing what's better for us, not them.

 

That's quite the wish list, Polyanna.  

 

I'll ask just one question out of the many that are unpossible.  How do you suppose you will get a healthier population if you impose a single payer scheme?



#57 gatorbait

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:47 AM

You didn't answer my question.
 
How can something be a right if:
 
a) there is a limited supply of it
b) it requires the resources and labor of others
 
If we "run out of care", because it is a finite resource, how can one claim a right to something that doesn't exist?
 
If something requires the labor and resources of others in order to produce, what happens if (when) they decide to stop producing it? 

You got me there Tasker, I can't answer that one well enough to appease you. Other major nations look at it that way, and I do too. I understand how people don't see it as a right though, and it's all good. Have a great day sweeties, I love you all too.

 
That's quite the wish list, Polyanna.  
 
I'll ask just one question out of the many that are unpossible.  How do you suppose you will get a healthier population if you impose a single payer scheme?

More access, regular checkups, the poor actually going to a doctor regularly instead of just going to the ER when something goes drastically wrong. There will be longer waiting times, that much is evident in countries with universal care. We are the only major nation that doesn't offer basic care to the poor. We are supposed to lead the world!

That isn't a wish list, it's what will happen when we move to single payer. It's not as hard as you make it out to be. Lobbyists and corporations have done a great job making us think the wrong stuff.

Edited by gatorbait, 03 April 2017 - 08:50 AM.


#58 GG

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:51 AM

You got me there Tasker, I can't answer that one well enough to appease you. Other major nations look at it that way, and I do too. I understand how people don't see it as a right though, and it's all good. Have a great day sweeties, I love you all too.
More access, regular checkups, the poor actually going to a doctor regularly instead of just going to the ER when something goes drastically wrong. There will be longer waiting times, that much is evident in countries with universal care. We are the only major nation that doesn't offer basic care to the poor. We are supposed to lead the world!

 

Statistics show that when the poor do go to the ER, the situation is already acute.  What makes you think that they will change their behavior?  You do realize that after ACA passed, ER visits jumped, even though people had medical coverage to see a doctor?  A how in the world will service get better when you will reduce the service options and pay less for the services?  Do you think the doctors will start to provide better care at less pay for the common good of mankind?



#59 richstadiumowner

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:51 AM

 

 

If something requires the labor and resources of others in order to produce, what happens if (when) they decide to stop producing it? 

 

Ci senor, gatorbait gets his bulldozers and death squads deseo radical.


Edited by richstadiumowner, 03 April 2017 - 08:58 AM.


#60 TakeYouToTasker

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 09:07 AM

You got me there Tasker, I can't answer that one well enough to appease you. Other major nations look at it that way, and I do too. I understand how people don't see it as a right though, and it's all good. Have a great day sweeties, I love you all too.
 

It's a question that you should be able to answer easily, because it's fundamental to your position.

 

If you can't answer it, what does that say about your assertion?