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Rotoworld ranks Whaley as worst GM in NFL


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#281 baskingridgebillsfan

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:38 AM

 

I'm afraid your take is so wrong about the intentions regarding the starting QB that year because you are confused about the "uptempo" offense.

 

The uptempo offense was meant to simplify reads for a young QB.

 

Hence, Chip Kelly stepping in the same year and turning struggling second year player Nick Foles into a 27 TD 3 INT QB. :lol:

 

EJ actually looked very good in it initially.   

 

Kolb was a complete tomato can.......nobody in football could have believed he'd make it thru a football season.......it was INEVITABLE that the backup would be starting sooner or later..........and they went out of their way to make sure there was no veteran in EJ's way when it happened......cutting the dirt cheap and very solid backup TJax.

 

I'm not sure why this simple fact eludes some Bills fans but it was no secret that Kolb had one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel when the Bills acquired him.

 

Kolb was simply brought in to create a sham competition that EJ would appear to win and that would both give him confidence and also explain/justify their reason for starting a very green young QB.

I agree E.j wasn;t a disaster at first. I think the injuries and MArrone hurt his development.  I can't defend E.j beyond that .



#282 Bill_with_it

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:14 AM

Disagree totally - Kolb was one of the top FA QBs available (albeit with a risk). They wanted to run an uptempo offense with a veteran and that became obvious because shortly after the concussion the team began working on a more traditional paced offense and the uptempo offense went away by week 4.

If the plan was to have EJ win the battle and run an uptempo offense - why did they move away from that after a few weeks if as you say EJ looked good in it.

The facts point to everything being even they wanted to run a faster pace Chip Kelly offense and have an attacking defense and they wanted someone with experience running that attack - I understand Kolb showed nothing in Buffalo because of the concussion, but we was not going to be beat out by EJ.

The fact the Bills moved back and looked to move back again before drafting EJ tells you that they knew he needed work. The fact tha Marrone was not comfortable with the QB situation in either year as seen with the argument at Training Camp and the change to Orton tells me that Marrone wanted a Veteran signal caller to give himself a chance at success.

The biggest difference was to see the change in the offense over time - they wanted an uptempo fast paced offense - Kolb gets hurt and the EJ starts game one and they begin to walk back the uptempo offense even though he is alright. By the forth game, they are back to running a traditional offense with more of a rushing attack as they filter through QB after QB. Year two starts and the are a more run first team and then Orton takes over and the passing game begins to open up. Marrone wanted that veteran presence at QB to run his offense and the Kolb injury changed that.

Now you can argue whether or not they should have trusted Kolb to stay healthy, but it was obvious from the beginning with the mat his time in Buffalo was doomed.

There was no plan to sit EJ in order for him to learn. Doug Whaley and Marrone are on record prior to the season speaking abou the two qbs competing and hoping that Manuel wind it. Dont let a post season press conference tell you any different.
The truth about the QB battle: The competition is still ongoing. Despite Manuel's mastery of the two-minute drill in the preseason opener -- the rook even called his own play when the headset went out -- and Kevin Kolb's knee injury, Manuel hasn't been named the starter yet. Competition is king. But in talking with key members of the Bills organization, the sense you get is that they'd all love for Manuel to grab the job with two hands and never let go. That would allow the rebuilding to start off right. "Absolutely, it helps if he becomes the starter and becomes successful; there's no doubt about it," Whaley told me. "When you draft a guy in the first round to be a quarterback, he's going to be the face of your organization, the face of your franchise. And as he goes, we go. And that's part of what we're trying to instill. Let's be aggressive, let's go with it -- if he wins the job." That will be the biggest decision yet in Marrone's young tenure: making the call between Manuel and Kolb. As Whaley says, the best-case scenario is that Kolb continues to throw as well as he did in practice on Tuesday, so that however the race plays out, you don't feel there's a huge drop-off when the backup comes in. But ultimately, the ideal situation is that Manuel's stellar play continues and it's a no-brainer. If not, Marrone told me, there will come a time when he simply must make a decision. "That's what we do, as coaches, general managers, scouts," Marrone said. "The time's going to come, if we have to do it, 10-12 days prior to the first game

#283 Buffalo86

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:40 AM

One thing I've always wondered about with Whaley was that if the stories are true of him getting pushed around by coaches and the owners, why he didn't just quit. Who sits back and takes that much crap. At some point it stops being worth it. If you veto or ignore his input that many times, why bother anymore?

If you have a job that's far above your pay grade, you might put up with a lot to keep it.  It's not likely that Whaley will ever sniff another GM job after this one, so I can understand him wanting to hold onto it for as long as he can.



#284 JM2009

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:43 PM

I agree E.j wasn;t a disaster at first. I think the injuries and MArrone hurt his development.  I can't defend E.j beyond that .

He had to be benched in 2014.



#285 hondo in seattle

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:13 PM

I know everyone wants to jump on the hate Whaley train but this article is terrible.  It is a year to year ranking which is important to keep in mind.  

 

Here are some gems:

 

Ozzie Newsome at 5.  Ozzie has a reputation as one of the best GMs in the game and deservedly so.  However the team no longer has Ray Lewis and they have made the playoffs once in the last 4 years.  The last 2 years they have gone 8-8 and 5-11.

 

Dave Gettleman at 8.  He actually moved up from 7.  In a year where they went from SB runner up to 6-10 and had the Josh Norman screw up.

 

Rick SMith at 9.  The same Rick Smith who threw 72 million at Brock Osweiller without ever meeting him and then traded him AND a 2nd a year later to get rid of his mistake.  

 

Stephen Jones at 10.  This is one where he has them ranked too low imo.  I would put him over the above 3 at least.

 

Kevin Colbert at 13 with this writeup: "At some point, Colbert is going to need one of his Cameron Heyward/Jarvis Jones/Ryan Shazier/Bud Duprees to actually be a star."  Jarvis Jones no longer plays for the Steelers

 

Jon Robinson at 20.  Criminally low for the work he has done with the Titans imo.

 

And on and on...

 

There are reasons to not like Whaley but if you already held that belief this article shouldn't be used as ammunition to prove your point...

 

Good observations.



#286 blacklabel

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:13 PM

EJ had some decent moments in 2013, he has his flaws, no doubt, but I've always felt the tandem of Marrone and Hackett was a terrible combination for developing a young QB. Marrone preferred the inside zone runs and was not very flexible in what style of offense he wanted to run. I forget who said it but it was an OL during a minicamp in Rex's first year and he was asked the difference between the Marrone/Hackett offense and the Roman offense and the guy said all Marrone wanted to do was run inside zone whereas Roman was implementing the wide variety of blocking schemes he likes to use. And then of course, Marrone and Hackett are both first timers at their positions in the NFL. They have a QB who trusts himself the most to make a play which leads to him leaving the pocket early, dropping his eyes off his reads and taking off for a scramble. Normally, coaches want to teach a young QB that he's going to have to hang in the pocket and wait for the play to develop and not take off at the first sign of trouble. However, I remember quite distinctly that Marrone/Hackett both encouraged EJ to run whenever he felt like the play wasn't there. They preferred EJ take off and gain a few yards rather than throw an incompletion or an interception. As a young QB you've gotta let the guy take his lumps and learn from his mistakes. Given EJ's slower processing time and the fact that he didn't trust himself to fire the ball downfield into tight windows or throw receivers open, telling him to scramble rather than try to make the throw simply reinforced bad habits EJ already had. 

 

In near-perfect situations EJ showed real NFL ability as a QB. And by near-perfect I mean a clean pocket, his footwork is in sync with the routes his receivers are running and the pocket holds up long enough for him to correctly apply his mechanics and accurately deliver the ball for a completion. Unfortunately, those types of situations don't happen very often during a game. QBs need to be able to work in a muddy pocket, avoid pressure, look off the safety, go through the reads, make a decision and throw all within about three seconds. After that, things start to fall apart and improvising comes into play, and EJ's improv was just to give up on the throw and take off.

 

You can see as he went from the system used in '13 and '14 to the ones used in '15 and '16 that he was trying to become more of a pocket passer without his first instinct being to run as soon as trouble arose. There's no doubt about his athletic ability and his work ethic, unfortunately for him, his biggest hurdle is the mental processing aspect and how quickly it needs to be done. Perhaps that's why Marrone/Hackett encouraged the running? Maybe they knew it was going to take the guy quite a while to adapt to the speed of the game so maybe they thought they were keeping it simple for him by giving him half-field reads with a near-constant option to run, I dunno. He's a good dude, it just hasn't happened for him. However, with Oakland's OL, I kind of expect him to beat out Cook for the backup job out there based on how good the protection is from the Oakland OL. Carr was sacked only 16 times last season. Granted, Carr makes his reads and decisions faster but the more time EJ has the better simply because he just doesn't process things as fast as needed in the NFL.



#287 Watkins_deep

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:21 PM

When you see tony soprano look at aj on the computer with disgust. Thts how i feel about russ

#288 #BADOL

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:04 AM

Disagree totally - Kolb was one of the top FA QBs available (albeit with a risk). They wanted to run an uptempo offense with a veteran and that became obvious because shortly after the concussion the team began working on a more traditional paced offense and the uptempo offense went away by week 4.

If the plan was to have EJ win the battle and run an uptempo offense - why did they move away from that after a few weeks if as you say EJ looked good in it.

The facts point to everything being even they wanted to run a faster pace Chip Kelly offense and have an attacking defense and they wanted someone with experience running that attack - I understand Kolb showed nothing in Buffalo because of the concussion, but we was not going to be beat out by EJ.

The fact the Bills moved back and looked to move back again before drafting EJ tells you that they knew he needed work. The fact tha Marrone was not comfortable with the QB situation in either year as seen with the argument at Training Camp and the change to Orton tells me that Marrone wanted a Veteran signal caller to give himself a chance at success.

The biggest difference was to see the change in the offense over time - they wanted an uptempo fast paced offense - Kolb gets hurt and the EJ starts game one and they begin to walk back the uptempo offense even though he is alright. By the forth game, they are back to running a traditional offense with more of a rushing attack as they filter through QB after QB. Year two starts and the are a more run first team and then Orton takes over and the passing game begins to open up. Marrone wanted that veteran presence at QB to run his offense and the Kolb injury changed that.

Now you can argue whether or not they should have trusted Kolb to stay healthy, but it was obvious from the beginning with the mat his time in Buffalo was doomed.

 

Kevin Kolb? :flirt:

 

The guy that never even threw for 10 TD passes in a season in his career?

 

TJax was the better QB.......by A LOT.......and that's why he had to go.

 

The previous season Alex Carrington broke every bone in Kolb's body....ending his season....... with an innocent looking tackle when the Bills were in Arizona...........so the Bills had first hand knowledge of his fragility. :doh:



#289 BuffaloBillsGospel

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:59 AM

That is because you want the list to look bad - we can do this another way:

The Good - Trading for Hughes, Trading for McCoy, Signing Richie, letting Byrd walk, Signing Z. Brown, signing Alexander, signing Taylor, putting together the talent for a top 5 defense, putting together the talent for a top 10 offense, resigning Taylor at a reduced contract, retaining Richie, Glenn, Wood from a top offensive line, trading back to draft EJ (if you want to give him the EJ pick).

The Bad - trading up for Watkins (has great talent and no previous injury history, but you do not trade up for WR), trading up for a MLB.

To me nearly everything else is the result of the coaching changes and that was beyond his control. Why do we have so few players drafted left - because we keep changing systems and needs. To build a team faster for a switchover - you sign FAs that fit the new scheme and that costs you draft picks.

 

Agree to disagree, I didn't make a list to make Whaley look bad, he does that all on his own.... You list Zach Brown as good but he only gave him a 1 year deal and didn't retain him so how is that a positive? I'd put Alexander on the lisyt if he can repeat last years total but thats highly unlikely ( I obviously hope he does though), we had the best running game in the league and the lowest passing team in the league so yeah I don't have a probem with putting that on the  list although I'd like the passing to at least be middle of the pack, there is no justification for the EJ pick it was a huge swing and miss and he's on record as saying he was to blame for the Manuel pick at his press conference debacle which can also be a negative, along with his mismanagement of the salary cap, giving Dareus that contract without an out clause in case he's busted and lost for the year due to his drug problems.

 

I like to think I'm a level headed fan but even I turn into a homer sometimes and I think you are justifying what Doug Whaley is doing and has done with draft picks but you have the homer glasses on. Elite and greatplayers can be used in any scheme, take the Los Angeles Rams for instance, they were a base 4-3 team and will now become a Wade Philips 3-4 base team under him, he will fit the players where he feels they will succeed the most, those players we drafted aren't here because they either aren't that good or we couldn't identify the ones that were (Ross Cockrell -Steelers, K Dustin Hopkins-Washington). 



#290 Shotgunner

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:46 AM

I must be the only one who doesn't think he is all that bad

 

 

 

CBF

Add me to that list. 

 

Unfortunately this ranking is merely a reflection of TBN. First line of that little write-up tells you all you need to know: the author doesn't know jack about Buffalo, but picked up a TBN and went with it. 

 

Welcome to "journalism" in 2017. One person does an opinion piece built on a kernel of truth, and 50 million national writers paraphrase and call it news. 

 

I won't even get into TBN, but those writers are nuttier than a porta-potty at a peanut festival. 



#291 Pbomb

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:20 AM

Add me to that list. 
 
Unfortunately this ranking is merely a reflection of TBN. First line of that little write-up tells you all you need to know: the author doesn't know jack about Buffalo, but picked up a TBN and went with it. 
 
Welcome to "journalism" in 2017. One person does an opinion piece built on a kernel of truth, and 50 million national writers paraphrase and call it news. 
 
I won't even get into TBN, but those writers are nuttier than a porta-potty at a peanut festival.

the best is when tbn uses jason la canfora as a source for their garbage articles

#292 Pbomb

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:30 AM

I also love how people bring up cap mismanagement. When ralph was owner we always had money left, we seldom kept our star players and rarely big spenders in fa and people complained ralph was cheap. Now we do and people calls it cap mismanagement.
We were able to sign alot of players in fa and didnt have to cut star players who contribute. And we still have cap left and plenty next year

Edited by Pbomb, 22 April 2017 - 05:52 AM.


#293 Bill from NYC

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:56 AM

I also love how people bring up cap mismanagement. When ralph was owner we always had money left, we seldom kept our star players and rarely big spenders in fa and people complained ralph was cheap. Now we do and people calls it cap mismanagement.
We were able to sign alot of players in fa and didnt have to cut star players who contribute. And we still have cap left and plenty next year

I know, really. Why be critical of such a well oiled machine?



#294 Straight Hucklebuck

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 07:28 AM

In regards to EJ - The thought process from our GM and Assistant GM in 2013 made no sense. You pair a Rookie HC in Marrone, with a first time NFL Offensive Coordinator (Hackett), and make him serve double duty as the QB Coach, then surround Manuel with Practice Squad Journeyman Thad Lewis, and undrafted rookie free agent Jeff Tuel. 

 

Horrible support staff. 

 

But EJ has had plenty of chances since then to prove he can play. So this idea that EJ was ruined is bogus. He is not accurate and can't throw with anticipation, so therefore he can't play. 

 

Whaley has shown he is a scout only. He doesn't do the job of a GM. 



#295 Rico

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 07:30 AM

I know, really. Why be critical of such a well oiled machine?

Indeed. You can't argue with success.

#296 JM2009

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:31 AM

In regards to EJ - The thought process from our GM and Assistant GM in 2013 made no sense. You pair a Rookie HC in Marrone, with a first time NFL Offensive Coordinator (Hackett), and make him serve double duty as the QB Coach, then surround Manuel with Practice Squad Journeyman Thad Lewis, and undrafted rookie free agent Jeff Tuel. 

 

Horrible support staff. 

 

But EJ has had plenty of chances since then to prove he can play. So this idea that EJ was ruined is bogus. He is not accurate and can't throw with anticipation, so therefore he can't play. 

 

Whaley has shown he is a scout only. He doesn't do the job of a GM. 

I agree.



#297 DriveFor1Outta5

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:12 PM

In regards to EJ - The thought process from our GM and Assistant GM in 2013 made no sense. You pair a Rookie HC in Marrone, with a first time NFL Offensive Coordinator (Hackett), and make him serve double duty as the QB Coach, then surround Manuel with Practice Squad Journeyman Thad Lewis, and undrafted rookie free agent Jeff Tuel. 
 
Horrible support staff. 
 
But EJ has had plenty of chances since then to prove he can play. So this idea that EJ was ruined is bogus. He is not accurate and can't throw with anticipation, so therefore he can't play. 
 
Whaley has shown he is a scout only. He doesn't do the job of a GM. 

I agree. I'm seeing a few people make excuses for the EJ pick. In fact I've read a few posts with quite in depth analysis of EJ. It's not really that complicated. EJ was a reach and a poor draft choice. He was surrounded with superior talent at FSU but didn't fully utilize it. Winston came in and won a national championship when EJ left. He wasn't very good at FSU and was destined to be the same in the pros.

#298 OldTimeAFLGuy

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:24 PM

Disagree totally - Kolb was one of the top FA QBs available (albeit with a risk). They wanted to run an uptempo offense with a veteran and that became obvious because shortly after the concussion the team began working on a more traditional paced offense and the uptempo offense went away by week 4.

....seriously?...he was concussed at least 5+ times between Eagles and Cards....besides he was yet another Eagles backup who after a couple of starts because of injuries became league wide drool (see Nick Foles) who amounted to squat (see Nick Foles AGAIN)..........



#299 Watkins_deep

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 03:51 PM

Whaley drafts way better than modrak... What has held the team back is qb , marrone quit and rex ruined the d
Tht was russ

#300 JM2009

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 06:38 PM

Whaley drafts way better than modrak... What has held the team back is qb , marrone quit and rex ruined the d
Tht was russ

Taylor is the least of this teams problems.