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Worried About the Scout Vacancies- Big Hole!


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#21 somnus00

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:47 AM

I know a lot of people here wanted the Bills to clean house, but I really wanted us to keep Monos.



#22 OldTimeAFLGuy

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:49 AM

...or even better, wait until your new GM was hired, and then let him decide, who stays and who goes.  Then again, why use common sense when making this decision.  I am sure there were some good guys in that group of 17 that got flushed down the toilet by...Pegula, McD, Overdorf, ???

...certainly was an alternative.....could be an awkward situation with some long term holdovers from the RW era and making the "new sheriff" the bad guy by letting some go....flip side as it is now is he starts with an empty stable and can stock it with whomever he wants......



#23 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:52 AM

I hope people understand that teams can block their scouts from interviewing with the Bills. The candidate pool is out of work scouts and coaches. That doesn't seem like the best idea. The Bills shouldn't have fired the whole staff. That was really stupid. They should have fired the guys that weren't good. Now, even if they want some of those guys back they are free agents. Don't be mistaken, this is a PROBLEM.

#24 yungmack

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:04 PM

Good thing we're in the middle of college football season. Oh wait...

It isn't college that's the main concern now but scouting the players in other camps.

#25 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:05 PM

I hope people understand that teams can block their scouts from interviewing with the Bills. The candidate pool is out of work scouts and coaches. That doesn't seem like the best idea. The Bills shouldn't have fired the whole staff. That was really stupid. They should have fired the guys that weren't good. Now, even if they want some of those guys back they are free agents. Don't be mistaken, this is a PROBLEM.

But...but...clean house!!



#26 xsoldier54

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:07 PM

Somehow the idea that the Bills just fired their entire scouting staff (17 people except for two in personnel) does not seem concerning to most people but I am worried that it is a huge deal, a huge hole.  

When has a team fired their entire scouting staff?  

       You can't just out source college and pro scouts to India or the Philippines (for example).  A team needs a trusted network of them, people that have relationships with the coach, GM and other team officials.  Trusted scouts are the worker bees that help build a successful team's foundation.    

       Most likely McD and the Beane have relationships and connections to some Scouts and will succeed in bringing them to the Bills- but it will not be enough.

I know that the previous scouts should be accountable in part for the lack of the team's success.  

But what the heck are they going to do next year?  Rely on Mayock, McShay and Walter Football?  

This is a big deal!   

To answer your question, teams have done this very often.  When a change is made at GM, often the scouting staff is let go as well. No big deal.  Beane has said that he has a list of candidates from around the league.  He'll fill those vacancies pretty quickly.



#27 jmc12290

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:11 PM

But...but...clean house!!


Did the Bills do something wrong or the fans? Where is your ire directed?

#28 BillsFan4

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:26 PM

- they timed that step as well as they could have. It's literally reboot time of year
- I'm sure they retained all the data from the prior scouts on underclassman as fall back
- I'm sure there is scouting data they can purchase
- the risk is they miss out on a few hidden gems here or there, I'm trying to think over the last several drafts what that might mean.


Interesting fact - Whaley and the Bills did not start truly scouting underclassmen until they declared for the draft... A mostly outdated practice in the NFL these days. Hopefully that'll change under the new GM.

Matthew Fairburn @MatthewFairburn

Doug Whaley told me the Bills don't dig into underclassmen until they declare. He explained why here:

http://www.newyorkup...erclassmen.html

#29 John from Hemet

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:41 PM

Im not worried about this until it actually IS a problem......remember there is no salary cap on coaches, scouts, etc. and remember who our owner is.



#30 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:43 PM

Im not worried about this until it actually IS a problem......remember there is no salary cap on coaches, scouts, etc. and remember who our owner is.

It IS a problem now. Scouts are under contract. We can't solicit guys currently scouting.

#31 jeffismagic

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:47 PM

I hope people understand that teams can block their scouts from interviewing with the Bills. The candidate pool is out of work scouts and coaches. That doesn't seem like the best idea. The Bills shouldn't have fired the whole staff. That was really stupid. They should have fired the guys that weren't good. Now, even if they want some of those guys back they are free agents. Don't be mistaken, this is a PROBLEM.

 

Yes. And Buffalo does not look like the best situation for talented scouts to work in. Beane will have to convince people that their work will be valued.



#32 John from Hemet

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:47 PM

It IS a problem now. Scouts are under contract. We can't solicit guys currently scouting.

and you dont think McD and Beane dont have a list before they decided to do this?

 

If we are gonna say we do a front office purge then we gotta have faith in the new guys that are brought in to not be so stupid as to not have a backup plan in place?



#33 jeremy2020

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:51 PM

You guys do realize that every team does outsource scouting to some degree? There are several companies retained by NFL teams that do scouting work in addition to the teams own scouts. It's not like scouts working for teams are the *only* pool of scouts out there.

 

Are scouts even included in the whole can't make a lateral move thing anyway?



#34 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:54 PM

and you dont think McD and Beane dont have a list before they decided to do this?
 
If we are gonna say we do a front office purge then we gotta have faith in the new guys that are brought in to not be so stupid as to not have a backup plan in place?

I don't think that selecting from only out of work scouts, as a 1st time GM and a 1st time HC is a good plan. Absolutely not! The sensible approach would have been to retain everyone until you had a GM and decided who stayed and who went. You could have filled the rest of the spots with the same out of work scouts on the market. Instead, you made them all free agents. Your best guys can go wherever they want. You should have protected Monos and Hanrahan, etc... That is a shortsighted and foolish decision.

You guys do realize that every team does outsource scouting to some degree? There are several companies retained by NFL teams that do scouting work in addition to the teams own scouts. It's not like scouts working for teams are the *only* pool of scouts out there.
 
Are scouts even included in the whole can't make a lateral move thing anyway?

Yes and teams have their respresentatives in the scouting services (like Blesto).

 
Yes. And Buffalo does not look like the best situation for talented scouts to work in. Beane will have to convince people that their work will be valued.

Exactly

#35 John from Hemet

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:54 PM

I don't think that selecting from only out of work scouts, as a 1st time GM and a 1st time HC is a good plan. Absolutely not! The sensible approach would have been to retain everyone until you had a GM and decided who stayed and who went. You could have filled the rest of the spots with the same out of work scouts on the market. Instead, you made them all free agents. Your best guys can go wherever they want. You should have protected Monos and Hanrahan, etc... That is a shortsighted and foolish decision.
Yes and teams have their respresentatives in the scouting services (like Blesto).
Exactly

I get your point Kirby.....I am just saying time will tell if it was a bad decision or not.  We wont know right away.



#36 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 12:56 PM

I get your point Kirby.....I am just saying time will tell if it was a bad decision or not.  We wont know right away.

That's what I am disputing. Time won't tell because there was no upside to the way they did it. All that they did was give up control. There was ZERO benefit to their plan. That's why it is an indefensible mistake.

#37 jmc12290

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:03 PM

That's what I am disputing. Time won't tell because there was no upside to the way they did it. All that they did was give up control. There was ZERO benefit to their plan. That's why it is an indefensible mistake.


Inexperienced ownership?

#38 Kirby Jackson

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:06 PM

Inexperienced ownership?

I don't know where the blame falls. I guess time will tell of it matters or not but there was no upside to doing what they did. It's like the decision to punt in overtime against Miami. A tie eliminated you, there was no upside.

#39 John from Hemet

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:08 PM

That's what I am disputing. Time won't tell because there was no upside to the way they did it. All that they did was give up control. There was ZERO benefit to their plan. That's why it is an indefensible mistake.

I see

 

So if the bills go into next year and have a great draft will it still be a indefensable mistake?



#40 klos63

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 01:09 PM

Should I be worried, or can I just assume the premise for this thread is silly and go about my business?

it's silly. Is there anyone to really be scouting to heavily right now? And it's not like we burned the files we have on players recently scouted.