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#41 TheElectricCompany

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:36 AM

In both Denver & Houston, it is challenging to separate Kubiak & Dennison. 

The narrative in 2016 was that Kubiak was unable to fully hand off the offense to Dennison. 

Kubiak has historically called the plays for the teams he's coached. 

There is some intrigue on what Dennison could do on his own. 


Edited by TheElectricCompany, 20 July 2017 - 11:37 AM.


#42 Stank_Nasty

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:39 AM

In both Denver & Houston, it is challenging to separate Kubiak & Dennison. 

The narrative in 2016 was that Kubiak was unable to fully hand off the offense to Dennison. 

Kubiak has historically called the plays for the teams he's coached. 

There is some intrigue on what Dennison could do on his own. 

fair enough.



#43 JerseyBills

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:55 AM

Dennison's scheme saw reduced production from both Thomas and Sanders in Denver the past two seasons, and they are much more established and proven then Sammy. Instead of finding ways to get arguably the #1 WR duo in the league the ball, they preferred to hand off to bum RBs behind a garbage OL. I hope he can incorporate an offense that highlights Sammy's abilities, but he didn't exactly sell me in Denver on how he could do that. I would argue that D.Thomas is the premier quick screen/slant WR in the league (him and Manning CRUSHED teams with that play) and you rarely saw that in 15 & 16.  
 
What do you think is more likely, that all those coaches couldn't spot brilliance in front of them, or that Sammy just isn't all he's cracked up to be? I think you can tell how I feel... 
 
Sammy is a good player with plenty to work with, but there isn't enough to say he is the best at anything or elite at this point in his career. More consistency and production will help. Pump the brakes. 

I completely agree with the Watkins statements. I should pump the brakes. He definitely needs more consistency and availability. As far as production , it goes back to targets, when he is getting targets, he produces.

I couldn't tell you what the coaches were thinking but it doesn't take an expert to see that the game tapes show an extremely talented, clear cut # 1 WR, that has been criminally under utilized. If I had to answer, I'd say scheme , uncertainty and lack of chemistry at the QB position is likely why he didn't get targeted.

As far as Dennison, I have to disagree, I'm excited and optimistic he will utilize Sammy much better and showcase his talents. Yes D.T and Sanders dipped in production but you totally left out the part about the QB situation.

Manning was a shell of himself physically in 2015 and he got Brock Osweiler a super pay day. Still with these 2 QB's ,DT had 105 rec and 1300 yards! Sanders had 76 rec and 1135 yards! I'd call that impressive considering who was slinging the pigskin...

Jump to the 16 season and he had Siemian and Paxton Lynch who started 2 games. Both were first time starters and both were considered two of the worse qbs last year. Still , DT hauled in 90 rec for 1083 yards and Sanders had 79 rec for 1032 yards. Again, considering who was throwing the football, this was impressive imo.

Taylor is a major upgrade over 2015 Manning ,Brock and Siemian. Our OL is also an upgrade. In 2014, Manning was playing at an MVP level, of course DT/Sanders production declined. Still Dennison got them heavily involved the last two years, with one of the worse QB situations in the league

Edited by JerseyBills, 20 July 2017 - 11:58 AM.


#44 dneveu

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:13 PM

In both Denver & Houston, it is challenging to separate Kubiak & Dennison. 

The narrative in 2016 was that Kubiak was unable to fully hand off the offense to Dennison. 

Kubiak has historically called the plays for the teams he's coached. 

There is some intrigue on what Dennison could do on his own. 

 

Definitely a big question mark.  I think Lynn showed that a new play-caller isn't necessarily a bad playcaller.  Game-day playcalling isn't as complicated as game-planning based on film study and defensive trends.  Hopefully he learned a thing or two in his many years under Kubiak.  



#45 Pete

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:22 PM

How is Sammy's foot doing?  I overdraft him every year in fantasy.  When should one select Sammy?  3rd round?



#46 TheElectricCompany

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:25 PM

I completely agree with the Watkins statements. I should pump the brakes. He definitely needs more consistency and availability. As far as production , it goes back to targets, when he is getting targets, he produces.

I couldn't tell you what the coaches were thinking but it doesn't take an expert to see that the game tapes show an extremely talented, clear cut # 1 WR, that has been criminally under utilized. If I had to answer, I'd say scheme , uncertainty and lack of chemistry at the QB position is likely why he didn't get targeted.

As far as Dennison, I have to disagree, I'm excited and optimistic he will utilize Sammy much better and showcase his talents. Yes D.T and Sanders dipped in production but you totally left out the part about the QB situation.

Manning was a shell of himself physically in 2015 and he got Brock Osweiler a super pay day. Still with these 2 QB's ,DT had 105 rec and 1300 yards! Sanders had 76 rec and 1135 yards! I'd call that impressive considering who was slinging the pigskin...

Jump to the 16 season and he had Siemian and Paxton Lynch who started 2 games. Both were first time starters and both were considered two of the worse qbs last year. Still , DT hauled in 90 rec for 1083 yards and Sanders had 79 rec for 1032 yards. Again, considering who was throwing the football, this was impressive imo.

Taylor is a major upgrade over 2015 Manning ,Brock and Siemian. Our OL is also an upgrade. In 2014, Manning was playing at an MVP level, of course DT/Sanders production declined. Still Dennison got them heavily involved the last two years, with one of the worse QB situations in the league

I just don't think it's that cut and dry. 

I saw an offense that clammed up and simply wasn't looking at ways to get the ball to their best players. 

Tough to say how Tyrod does in the Dennison system, I don't expect the zone read/option to be featured, more under center, play action, etc. 

I do know that we are elite in running the ball, and that should setup some incredible play action opportunities, especially if Sammy is healthy


Edited by TheElectricCompany, 20 July 2017 - 12:26 PM.


#47 dneveu

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:31 PM

I just don't think it's that cut and dry. 

I saw an offense that clammed up and simply wasn't looking at ways to get the ball to their best players. 

Tough to say how Tyrod does in the Dennison system, I don't expect the zone read/option to be featured, more under center, play action, etc. 

I do know that we are elite in running the ball, and that should setup some incredible play action opportunities, especially if Sammy is healthy

 

If we struggle to run the ball out of the gate under center, i think they'll be forced to add some pistol concepts just to get that part of the game going.

 

Also - pistol/option was MONEY in the red zone last year and we'd be stupid to ignore that.


Edited by dneveu, 20 July 2017 - 12:53 PM.


#48 JerseyBills

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 01:16 PM

I just don't think it's that cut and dry. 
I saw an offense that clammed up and simply wasn't looking at ways to get the ball to their best players. 
Tough to say how Tyrod does in the Dennison system, I don't expect the zone read/option to be featured, more under center, play action, etc. 
I do know that we are elite in running the ball, and that should setup some incredible play action opportunities, especially if Sammy is healthy

I agree the O clammed up at times, too much, especially last year.

But the limitations at QB have to be highlighted with his tenure in Denver and I feel the numbers show they fed their best WR's. 195 rec for DT and 150 for Sanders shows that the offense made it a point to get the ball in their playmaker's hands and I'm optimistic we see a big time spike in Sammy's targets.

I too am excited about play action being a big part of this O and will set up some big time opportunities. I feel that play action is a very underrated part of Taylor's game. I hope Dennison tweaks his scheme to include more read option, that was a big part in our red zone success last year.

#49 Over 29 years of fanhood

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 04:48 PM

 
I think this is an interesting stat because some folks out there seem to think we have a popgun offense.  We don't.  Our offense has been producing both big plays and points.  

That's explains why they were fun to watch even in spite of the annoyance I felt when they panned over to the bills sideline... at the twins...

Edited by Over 28 years of fanhood, 20 July 2017 - 04:48 PM.


#50 3rdand12

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 05:40 PM

I completely agree with the Watkins statements. I should pump the brakes. He definitely needs more consistency and availability. As far as production , it goes back to targets, when he is getting targets, he produces.

I couldn't tell you what the coaches were thinking but it doesn't take an expert to see that the game tapes show an extremely talented, clear cut # 1 WR, that has been criminally under utilized. If I had to answer, I'd say scheme , uncertainty and lack of chemistry at the QB position is likely why he didn't get targeted.

As far as Dennison, I have to disagree, I'm excited and optimistic he will utilize Sammy much better and showcase his talents. Yes D.T and Sanders dipped in production but you totally left out the part about the QB situation.

Manning was a shell of himself physically in 2015 and he got Brock Osweiler a super pay day. Still with these 2 QB's ,DT had 105 rec and 1300 yards! Sanders had 76 rec and 1135 yards! I'd call that impressive considering who was slinging the pigskin...

Jump to the 16 season and he had Siemian and Paxton Lynch who started 2 games. Both were first time starters and both were considered two of the worse qbs last year. Still , DT hauled in 90 rec for 1083 yards and Sanders had 79 rec for 1032 yards. Again, considering who was throwing the football, this was impressive imo.

Taylor is a major upgrade over 2015 Manning ,Brock and Siemian. Our OL is also an upgrade. In 2014, Manning was playing at an MVP level, of course DT/Sanders production declined. Still Dennison got them heavily involved the last two years, with one of the worse QB situations in the league

i enjoy posts like this. Positive with coherent and cognitive details. Beyond my ability to produce , but not too much so to recognize.
Sure will be interesting to see what Dennison and Company ask of Taylor and this Offense


I just don't think it's that cut and dry. 

I saw an offense that clammed up and simply wasn't looking at ways to get the ball to their best players. 

Tough to say how Tyrod does in the Dennison system, I don't expect the zone read/option to be featured, more under center, play action, etc. 

I do know that we are elite in running the ball, and that should setup some incredible play action opportunities, especially if Sammy is healthy

This would be something to look forward too.
I bet the Bills can sell the run quite well...


 

If we struggle to run the ball out of the gate under center, i think they'll be forced to add some pistol concepts just to get that part of the game going.

 

Also - pistol/option was MONEY in the red zone last year and we'd be stupid to ignore that.

With Cog and Miller as bruisers , Dimarco and Tolbert punishing LBs I sure would hope we can run at will this season. ( well you know what I mean) at least the safeties will have to respect it. and wearing the LBs an DBs down is something i enjoy watching



#51 Lafromboise

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:34 AM

just wanted to bump this. Sometime what you "hear" thats said cant go unnoticed.


Talking about Fantasy WR ratings and especially Donte Moncrief. Watkins is listed 20th.

 

Burleson (at 36:07): You wouldn't take (Brandin Cooks) over Sammy Watkins?

 

Brandt: I like to roll the dice, I go Cooks.

 

Adams: No, I would take Sammy, I think Sammy Watkins has a way higher ceiling than Moncrief.

 

Burleson: Really?

 

Adams: If Sammy Watkins is healthy, yeah.

 

Willie Colon: I think Sammy's foot ... in two years we may not see Sammy on the field no more.

 

Burleson: No kidding?

 

Willie Colon: And I think talking to the powers that be, I know some guys up in Buffalo, and they feel like even when he's off the field, it opens up the offense, 'cause now Tyrod's not focused on Sammy. It gives other guys opportunity to shine. So Sammy may be on the downslide of things.

 

Adams: So you're taking Moncrief over Sammy.

 

Colon: I am.

 

 

That's what was said, as exactly as I could transcribe.


Edited by Lafromboise, 17 August 2017 - 11:34 AM.


#52 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:42 AM

just wanted to bump this. Sometime what you "hear" thats said cant go unnoticed.


Talking about Fantasy WR ratings and especially Donte Moncrief. Watkins is listed 20th.

 

Burleson (at 36:07): You wouldn't take (Brandin Cooks) over Sammy Watkins?

 

Brandt: I like to roll the dice, I go Cooks.

 

Adams: No, I would take Sammy, I think Sammy Watkins has a way higher ceiling than Moncrief.

 

Burleson: Really?

 

Adams: If Sammy Watkins is healthy, yeah.

 

Willie Colon: I think Sammy's foot ... in two years we may not see Sammy on the field no more.

 

Burleson: No kidding?

 

Willie Colon: And I think talking to the powers that be, I know some guys up in Buffalo, and they feel like even when he's off the field, it opens up the offense, 'cause now Tyrod's not focused on Sammy. It gives other guys opportunity to shine. So Sammy may be on the downslide of things.

 

Adams: So you're taking Moncrief over Sammy.

 

Colon: I am.

 

 

That's what was said, as exactly as I could transcribe.

 

Willie Colon must be an a-hole to just make this kind of **** up. :lol:


Edited by 26CornerBlitz, 17 August 2017 - 11:42 AM.


#53 Seasons1992

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:45 AM

The detectives here at TBD don't miss anything.........



#54 Big C

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:49 AM

How about that!



#55 Jauronimo

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:49 AM

just wanted to bump this. Sometime what you "hear" thats said cant go unnoticed.


Talking about Fantasy WR ratings and especially Donte Moncrief. Watkins is listed 20th.

 

Burleson (at 36:07): You wouldn't take (Brandin Cooks) over Sammy Watkins?

 

Brandt: I like to roll the dice, I go Cooks.

 

Adams: No, I would take Sammy, I think Sammy Watkins has a way higher ceiling than Moncrief.

 

Burleson: Really?

 

Adams: If Sammy Watkins is healthy, yeah.

 

Willie Colon: I think Sammy's foot ... in two years we may not see Sammy on the field no more.

 

Burleson: No kidding?

 

Willie Colon: And I think talking to the powers that be, I know some guys up in Buffalo, and they feel like even when he's off the field, it opens up the offense, 'cause now Tyrod's not focused on Sammy. It gives other guys opportunity to shine. So Sammy may be on the downslide of things.

 

Adams: So you're taking Moncrief over Sammy.

 

Colon: I am.

 

 

That's what was said, as exactly as I could transcribe.

Last year, Sammy's absence really opened up the offense and showcased Dez Lewis, Powell, and Goodwin for 2 games.   We really spread the ball around a lot to a number of guys who are no longer on the roster and that's a good thing I guess.