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Feel Like We Are Going Back To Dark Days


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#121 BillsFan4

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:39 AM

Anyone else feel like we are backwards?  This team has done such a 360 from where it was from 2000-2010, and I feel like we are entering right back to that era.
 
Pegula was such a nice breathe of fresh air, and IMO, so was Doug Whaley.  He got creative with salary cap, did things we never used to do, took chances in trades, etc.
 
I know this probably won't be popular, but I miss the Whaley days.  When Whaley was GM, I finally felt like a real NFL team, trying to actually get into the playoffs.   We were aggressive and the talent on this roster was the highest it has been in over a decade.
 
I just didn't see the need for the rebuild.  Pegula should have made sure this wasn't going to happen.  Looking back, I would have rather hired Lynn and kept Whaley.  At least they would want to keep great talent on this team, not get rid of it. 
 
This new regime just rubs me the wrong way.  They think that future picks actual mean anything.  Give me talent over maybe talent with a draft pick you don't even know the position of.  They think they won't have to ever pay out big contracts and we will just operate on guys who "want to be here."  They are always looking for low ball offers and think they are smart enough to win with lesser talent.  They are going to be in for a rude awakening.  You need talent to win.  They are setting themselves back 2 years and most regimes only get 3 years before they have to prove themselves.


I don't really get where this is coming from.

They won't ever have to pay out big contracts? How can you conclude that?

Doug Whaley was the GM when Gilmore left in free agency, and when Gillislee left on that offer sheet.
Before you blame McDermott, Whaley had 2 years to get Gilmore signed and he didn't. There were reports before McDermott was even hired that Whaley wasn't willing to give Gilmore more than $11.5M. Supposedly that was their best/highest offer.

Yeah, they traded Sammy. But that was 1 player, and we have no idea what the exact reasons for the trade were. Even if it was contract related in some part, I am sure there were other reasons behind it too. To conclude that they think they won't ever have to pay out big contracts seems like a,pretty big leap in logic IMO.

Always looking for low ball offers? Where does that come from?

Jeremy Maclin chose Baltimore over Buffalo and it had nothing to do with money. There was a report that the Bills actually tried to up their offer to above what Baltimore offered just to try one last time to get Maclin to sign here. He chose Baltimore because of (his words) Joe Flacco, because they won a Super Bowl recently and he felt they were close, and because his wife is from Baltimore and has family there.

And Boldin signed here. Beane said it was never about the money. They knew where the money needed to be and had agreed on it. It was Boldin deciding if this was a good fit for him and his family.

So I don't get the "always looking for low ball offers" comment. There doesn't really seem to be much to back that up.
They did say that they aren't going to overpay and hand out massive contracts in free agency though, which is a good strategy that many successful GMs employ and different from what you are saying.

As for draft picks meaning anything, they absolutely do. Almost all of the best NFL teams have all been built through the draft. That is how you build a true contender. You can't build a team through free agency in the cap era.


Whaley had been here since 2010 and was GM since 2013. He had plenty of time to put a winner on the field, but was only able to eek out a winning season 1 time in his entire tenure here, and if Brady + the starters play that last Pats game of 2014 the Bills likely don't have a winning season that year either.
He was an above average pro personnel guy and average (at best) to below average at everything else (IMO anyway). The Bills had the lowest number of drafted players on their roster in the entire NFL during Whaley's time here.
http://buffalonews.c...s-biggest-hole/

And they actually retained the least number of their players during his time here too (from 2010) -
http://buffalonews.c...cks-since-2010/

#122 CanadianFan

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:51 AM

It is so ironic that Whaley was given the can however it seems like the league just loves grabbing his talent. for Christ sake the Rams said just basically I take the Bills starting receivers plus our nickle corner. The PAts basically said ill take your starting CB slot receiver and backup RB and TE (Chandler before they cut after one season)

 

If Beane is to be believed teams are begging us to trade and not the other way around. The number one reason the Bills have not made the playoffs is coaching and a little bad luck. Before Nix and Whaley got here we were handing extentions to BUMS and couldnt get coaches to interview with us.

 

I believe that even if we do make the playoffs soon Whaley will be proven right by the talent he drafted. Maybe if he would have been allowed to pick his own coach then they would have had the chemistry that Beane and McDermott has which i think was put to the test that Sammy trade which i dont think McDermott was with 100%.

 

I hope Beane does not turn into a Beane counter no pun attendent.

 

I agree with you there bud. He did have some skill challenges - 1) managing expectations 2) communicating well with media and fans 3) lack of assertiveness. He didn't inject himself in the coaching hires enough. He paid for it. He might get another chance. He's still young enough. But yes. This is the most talented Bills roster has been since 1999. Some fools here don't realize it. 



#123 SoTier

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:03 AM

I'm not sure why everyone is convinced that the bills are shooting for the 1 overall, or that you can't get a good qb outside of that spot. They have potential to trade up if needed, and if wildly lucky, can snag their guy at their position, and use the other picks to bolster the team and prepare for aging players. If you're concerned about the bills not picking the right guy, I completely get that. They have to take a shot. They're set up better this year than any other.

 

They going to take a QB in the first round in 2018 even if, like 2013, there isn't a real prospect there.  Like 2013, they are going to cut Taylor before the March deadline so they not only don't have to pay him but also so that they don't have a viable QB on the roster.  They will do that because a first round QB will put butts in the seats and $$$ in the coffers, not because the next Jim Kelly is available. 



#124 harmonkillebrew

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:19 AM

Tom Brady was a 6th round pick

Drew Brees was a 2nd round pick

Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24th overall

Joe Flacco was 18th overall

Big Ben was 11th overall

Kirk Cousins was a 4th round pick

Derek Carr was a 2nd round pick

 

You can get your franchise QB from almost any draft position. It's all about coaching a QB up, along with having talent. Is Dennison a good enough coach to coach up whatever QB the Bills bring in. That is the biggest question.

First you have to draft one.

 

EJ was our only top round QB pick since 2004. Even in 2004, rather than try to move up for Big Ben we moved back into the late 1st for Losman



#125 JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:40 AM

Anyone else feel like we are backwards?  This team has done such a 360 from where it was from 2000-2010, and I feel like we are entering right back to that era.

 

Pegula was such a nice breathe of fresh air, and IMO, so was Doug Whaley.  He got creative with salary cap, did things we never used to do, took chances in trades, etc.

 

I know this probably won't be popular, but I miss the Whaley days.  When Whaley was GM, I finally felt like a real NFL team, trying to actually get into the playoffs.   We were aggressive and the talent on this roster was the highest it has been in over a decade.

 

I just didn't see the need for the rebuild.  Pegula should have made sure this wasn't going to happen.  Looking back, I would have rather hired Lynn and kept Whaley.  At least they would want to keep great talent on this team, not get rid of it. 

 

This new regime just rubs me the wrong way.  They think that future picks actual mean anything.  Give me talent over maybe talent with a draft pick you don't even know the position of.  They think they won't have to ever pay out big contracts and we will just operate on guys who "want to be here."  They are always looking for low ball offers and think they are smart enough to win with lesser talent.  They are going to be in for a rude awakening.  You need talent to win.  They are setting themselves back 2 years and most regimes only get 3 years before they have to prove themselves.

 

Really?  Cause to me it feels like we're finally struggling toward the light.

 

McBean is working from the BB playbook.  Get what you can early for talent that didn't work out, build from the draft.  Pats make cuts all the time that seem silly at the time, but they always improve the roster because they get draft picks early before the wheels fall off these players.  SW has loads of talent but how has that translated on the field?  I predict 2015 was his best season in the NFL.  Always hurt, you cant help your team into the playoffs if you cant play.  BB looks two, three years into the future and cuts players like Sammy in time to get something for them.  It works.

 

I think we are going to do much better this year under McD than many think, possibly make a wildcard run.  But if we suck this year in the name of building a SB bound team next few years, so be it.  Ive waited over 20 years for a SB team, I can wait a few more to do it right.  Rex and Whaley promised a "win now" approach, and THAT is what has set us back 2-3 years.  The SW reach was all about sacrificing the future to win now; it didn't work.  Time to reset.  I think McD has a 3-5 year plan to win the SB.  Need to give him at least a full season to see if he's taking us in the right direction.



#126 KellyToughII

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:41 AM

They are getting their ducks in a row to make a run at a top QB in next year's draft.

 

Without one we are doomed to mediocrity.

 

The plan is worth a shot, and it is too early to judge.

Exactly



#127 SoCal Deek

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:48 AM

Get real people! Sammy was gone next year when his contract was up....bank on it.

The move that I didn't understand, but I'm not losing sleep over, is Darby being shipped out. If Boldin was supposed to be the veteran WR presence then why go get Matthews? I'm hoping it works out. Fingers crossed.

#128 CSBill

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:03 AM

Yes, I do feel that way. Usually the reality am related depression starts about week 6. It really is demotivating as a fan. Hard to get excited about the season . . .

#129 YoloinOhio

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:20 AM

Get real people! Sammy was gone next year when his contract was up....bank on it.

The move that I didn't understand, but I'm not losing sleep over, is Darby being shipped out. If Boldin was supposed to be the veteran WR presence then why go get Matthews? I'm hoping it works out. Fingers crossed.

Matthews isn't a vet WR presence. He's on his rookie deal. Two different players though their "styles" are alike.

Edited by YoloinOhio, 13 August 2017 - 08:21 AM.


#130 frostbitmic

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:37 AM

Going back to dark days ?

 

It has been pretty dark in Buffalo since the music city forward pass. 17 straight years of being a playoff spectator is pretty dark, it'll be worse if the streak becomes legal to drink as the rebuild begins in full next year.



#131 teef

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:45 AM

They going to take a QB in the first round in 2018 even if, like 2013, there isn't a real prospect there.  Like 2013, they are going to cut Taylor before the March deadline so they not only don't have to pay him but also so that they don't have a viable QB on the roster.  They will do that because a first round QB will put butts in the seats and $$$ in the coffers, not because the next Jim Kelly is available.



Or the bills will actually have a guy they like, and will take him because the need a qb. Why does everything have to be so dramatic? With or without these recent changes and new qb was likely in the bills future soon. What happens changes nothing. This staff doesn't strike me as one that would just haphazardly choose a qb for the sake of grabbing one, but what do I know?

#132 Crusher

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:30 AM

You can't go back to the dark when you never made it out into the light.

At this point...Bills fans are nocturnal beings that may shriek in fright at the first sight of light and crawl back into their cave they've been in it so long.

#133 CDogg20

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:32 AM

The Chargers could chime in about Ryan Leaf...

That is a loser approach.

(Chuckle!)

It's a loser approach to try and become a perennial winner. Yeah youre right. That makes sense.

#134 WideRightRevenge

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:52 AM

What plan? All I see is a regime that is cheap, not creative and thinks draft picks are worth more than actual talent.

You can't tell me these trades are part of a tank job. They got players back and we are not the worst team in league.

 

Holy Crap .... Lighten up Francis .. Pegula saved the Bills for Buffalo ... You wanted Bon Jovi's Toronto Bills or Trumps LA Bills ... also let's give Beane a chance ... Carolina has a much more successful run than us since 2003 ... 5 Division Championships and 2 SB appearances .... versus blowhard Rex and Whaley's history of drafts .... we only have 14 players left ... I truly believe some people on this board should stop watching / rooting for the Bills ... yes you can have differing / negative opinions ... but "worst team in the league" and only 1 preseason game and oh yea .. best rushing attack in the league last year ... of which Sammy had ZERO impact with ... I'll take the Bills vs. the field especially with NYJ and Tannehill less Dolphins for 4 games.



#135 JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:44 AM


Bills fans are nocturnal beings that may shriek in fright at the first sight of light and crawl back into their cave they've been in it so long.

This is exactly what is happening.  Sadly, many fans don't even know what a winning franchise looks like.  



#136 Jasovon

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:50 AM

i love how every time the Bills do something new they are doing the same things they have for 17 years in some poster's eyes. 



#137 Fadingpain

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:50 AM

The Future at OBD is so bright, we are all going to need shades.



#138 goldenboy81

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:12 PM

At first i was shocked and disappointed but then reality sunked in..i do like possibly having 7 picks the 1st 3rounds next draft.
They are building a team through the draft like a team should be.Whatever has been done the last 20 years hasnt worked.
The Bills weren't winning the division this year or maybe next and im gonna give the new guys more than an offseason to show what they can do..

#139 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:20 PM

Anyone else feel like we are backwards?  This team has done such a 360 from where it was from 2000-2010, and I feel like we are entering right back to that era.
 
Pegula was such a nice breathe of fresh air, and IMO, so was Doug Whaley.  He got creative with salary cap, did things we never used to do, took chances in trades, etc.
 
I know this probably won't be popular, but I miss the Whaley days.  When Whaley was GM, I finally felt like a real NFL team, trying to actually get into the playoffs.   We were aggressive and the talent on this roster was the highest it has been in over a decade.
 
I just didn't see the need for the rebuild.  Pegula should have made sure this wasn't going to happen.  Looking back, I would have rather hired Lynn and kept Whaley.  At least they would want to keep great talent on this team, not get rid of it. 
 
This new regime just rubs me the wrong way.  They think that future picks actual mean anything.  Give me talent over maybe talent with a draft pick you don't even know the position of.  They think they won't have to ever pay out big contracts and we will just operate on guys who "want to be here."  They are always looking for low ball offers and think they are smart enough to win with lesser talent.  They are going to be in for a rude awakening.  You need talent to win.  They are setting themselves back 2 years and most regimes only get 3 years before they have to prove themselves.


Nope, we just came out of the dark ages and are entering the renaissance ... ittakestime. ;)

#140 Chuck Schick

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 04:12 PM

Yes, I do feel that way. Usually the reality am related depression starts about week 6. It really is demotivating as a fan. Hard to get excited about the season . . .


If you project Watkins to be relatively healthy and put up approx 1000 yds and 10 TDs (which in this offense would be a realistically "good" season), and for Darby to play solidly as a zone CB in the new scheme, how many wins do you think the Bills are losing out on by having Matthews and Gaines instead?
I know it's a guess, but I find it unlikely that the outcome would be that different when all is said-and-done.