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Rosen may not enter 18' draft and that is ok


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#121 dave mcbride

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:00 PM

As well as by perhaps the worst head coach of any major college program.

You are preaching the choir about Mora. 



#122 dave mcbride

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:15 PM

Understood, we are just on completely different ends of the spectrum.   I think if you look at the successful teams in the NFL, one thing sets them apart and that’s their Quarterback.  The difference in margin of talent in the NFL is so minimal, that you need to find the equalizer, and the equalizer, at least in my opinion is the man who has the ball in his hands the most throughout the game.

 

To your point on win-loss percentage, I also disagree.   Going back to 2012 draft class (excluding the last two draft classes, too early to speak to it) five Quarterbacks appear to have a proven track record in the NFL; Winston, Mariota, Carr, Luck, Wilson and Cousins.   Not one of those players had a win percentage under 61% in college.   The lowest of that group was Carr who lost 16 games, and 9 of those games were in his first year of starting.

 

I think your example of Goff is perfect to my point, no doubt that he was fun to watch in college but he only won 37% of his games, and it was clear he shouldn’t have been the first quarterback taken.

 

Rosen's teams have won 58 percent of the games he's started in. Let's see how he does this season. 

 

As for the others:

 

Winston: he played on a team that saw 18 players drafted in 2014 and 2015, and 8 of them went in the first two rounds. One of the most loaded teams in recent history.

 

Mariota; Ditto. 28 Ducks were drafted by the NFL from 2009-2015, and 8 in the first 3 rounds from 2013-15 (the years Mariota started). Put Mariota on Cal and see what happens. 

 

Luck: Not quite ditto, but Stanford's program has been great. 4 guys from his final year there were drafted in the first 2 rounds. He is also the best prospect to come out in a long, long time. Rosen is not as good as him.

 

Cousins: Good college player on a good college team with an excellent coach. He also was handing off to the best NFL running back in the game right now (Le'Veon Bell) and was backed by a very good defense.

 

Carr: I like him, but Fresno State did not beat one good team in Carr's entire career there. They mostly play very weak teams, although the few times they played good teams, they lost every single time. 

 

The bottom line: football is the ultimate team sport.


Edited by dave mcbride, 17 August 2017 - 12:17 PM.


#123 TheBrownBear

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:20 PM

I'm a UCLA guy, alum, and watch all of their games.  Rosen has a great arm.  Great accuracy.  Just a fantastic thrower of the football.  However, his decision making is suspect and he does tend to hold onto the ball too long.  In his defense, UCLA's receiving corp has been pathetic during his time there and the offensive line is horrible as well.  UCLA averaged something like 2.5 ypc last year.  As for his record as a starter, let's remember that he started as a true freshman and only played 6 games his sophomore season.  This, his true junior season, is when I would expect him to make the biggest leap.  Also keep in mind that UCLA was an all-around bad team last year and went 3-3 with Rosen and 1-5 without him.  Rosen was carrying the team until his injury.

 

As for the off the field stuff, I don't have too much of a problem with the things Rosen has said in the media.  He's a bright guy.  My bigger concern is that there's rumors that he's stubborn and not the most coachable guy.  And not the greatest locker room guy either. 

 

He's a high first round talent for sure and will be a starter at the NFL level.  The question is will he be an Aaron Rodgers or will he be a Jeff George?  I'm not sure about the answer to that one.



#124 dave mcbride

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:27 PM

I'm a UCLA guy, alum, and watch all of their games.  Rosen has a great arm.  Great accuracy.  Just a fantastic thrower of the football.  However, his decision making is suspect and he does tend to hold onto the ball too long.  In his defense, UCLA's receiving corp has been pathetic during his time there and the offensive line is horrible as well.  UCLA averaged something like 2.5 ypc last year.  As for his record as a starter, let's remember that he started as a true freshman and only played 6 games his sophomore season.  This, his true junior season, is when I would expect him to make the biggest leap.  Also keep in mind that UCLA was an all-around bad team last year and went 3-3 with Rosen and 1-5 without him.  Rosen was carrying the team until his injury.

 

As for the off the field stuff, I don't have too much of a problem with the things Rosen has said in the media.  He's a bright guy.  My bigger concern is that there's rumors that he's stubborn and not the most coachable guy.  And not the greatest locker room guy either. 

 

He's a high first round talent for sure and will be a starter at the NFL level.  The question is will he be an Aaron Rodgers or will he be a Jeff George?  I'm not sure about the answer to that one.

Good post (I went to UCLA too).



#125 GG

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:53 PM

 

 

It says that Ralph was mercurial.    But after a while it became pretty predictable.......if he thought he could win on the field he would pay.......and he spent big and on more than just one player at a time, an utter BS remark by you.

 

If he didn't think he could win, he'd comfort himself with winning on the books.

 

That constant shifting of focus stunted the development of the on field product time and again.

 

It's always interesting to me that so many people on here think people can't be complex.........they are one thing or the other..........Ralph had his good traits and wanted to win but wanting to win and knowing how to do it and being committed to it are different things.  

 

In other words, he spent money when it supports your argument?   

 

You can't argue that Wilson was a mercurial figure whose whims yoyo'ed the direction of the franchise and then be miffed that the Bills were never in contention for Manning.  Manning's availability came exactly at Wilson's low spending point.  So you can't have it both ways.  If Manning was available in 2002, I bet that he would be very much in contention for Buffalo.



#126 Mat68

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:14 PM

Imo the last 2 classes showed that it is in the Qbs best intrests to leave school early. College teams are not making them into pro style qbs anymore. If ya have some hype and can sling it leave early.

#127 thenorthremembers

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:41 PM

 

Rosen's teams have won 58 percent of the games he's started in. Let's see how he does this season. 

 

As for the others:

 

Winston: he played on a team that saw 18 players drafted in 2014 and 2015, and 8 of them went in the first two rounds. One of the most loaded teams in recent history.

 

Mariota; Ditto. 28 Ducks were drafted by the NFL from 2009-2015, and 8 in the first 3 rounds from 2013-15 (the years Mariota started). Put Mariota on Cal and see what happens. 

 

Luck: Not quite ditto, but Stanford's program has been great. 4 guys from his final year there were drafted in the first 2 rounds. He is also the best prospect to come out in a long, long time. Rosen is not as good as him.

 

Cousins: Good college player on a good college team with an excellent coach. He also was handing off to the best NFL running back in the game right now (Le'Veon Bell) and was backed by a very good defense.

 

Carr: I like him, but Fresno State did not beat one good team in Carr's entire career there. They mostly play very weak teams, although the few times they played good teams, they lost every single time. 

 

The bottom line: football is the ultimate team sport.

Going to have to agree to disagree on this one.   Could make the point that the quarterback’s level on play is what elevated the remainder of the team and had them on the board to be drafted in the first place.    Good points on the number of players drafted on those teams.  Just wondering how many of those same players were quality draft picks in the NFL?

 

Just dont think Rosen is anywhere near the player he is made out to be, particularly in the areas of accuracy, leadership, ball security and winning.  He has a nice arm, but its not special.  He isn’t overly accurate, not even 60% (recognize his stats aren’t inflated because of the prostyle offense) and he hasn’t played in or won enough games for me to consider him a high or even low 1st round pick.  I think Darnold and Rudolph will both be better pros.  Also think Mayfield will be better but recognize how much of a wild card he is.   For what its worth I love Allen’s arm but think he is overrated as well. 

 

The good news is I am just some goof who isn’t paid a dime to try and figure these things out, so I could be completely wrong.



#128 yungmack

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:27 PM

It did bring Rosen a new found spotlight, but it wasn't the first time charactor concerns were mentioned with Rosen. One scout said that Rosen has "tons of issues and is a mess off the field". Lots of signs point to Rosen being a spoiled rich kid. Arrogant intellectuals probably aren't very popular in NFL locker rooms.

I realize we live in a time when our highest elected officials feel free to voice whatever crazy stuff enters their minds, no matter how false. But TBD holds to a higher standard: most here prefer to stick to facts and to be clear when just putting forth opinions and "gut feelings." So:

Could you enlighten us as to what these "tons" of issues are? How about even 1 of his off field horrors? And how about a teensy bit of evidence that he's a "spoiled rich kid?" While you're doing this research to back up your so far unsupported assertions, could you also present some evidence that he's an " arrogant intellectual"?

Bobby why do you defend this kid?  UCLA Fan or just a liberal backing another liberal, or a family member?  I mean you post so hard about this kid I cant tell but damn it must be something along those lines.  Mayfield, Never said he didn't have an issue, find where I did.  I even made fun how how Barry Switzer said his old QB's wouldn't have gotten ran down like Baker did.
 
I don't mind debating, but you seem to be taking Rosen to heart personally, why is that?

Holy cow! So now we evaluate players according to perceived political positions and not talent? No wonder America is falling to pieces.

#129 thenorthremembers

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:30 PM

I realize we live in a time when our highest elected officials feel free to voice whatever crazy stuff enters their minds, no matter how false. But TBD holds to a higher standard: most here prefer to stick to facts and to be clear when just putting forth opinions and "gut feelings." So:

Could you enlighten us as to what these "tons" of issues are? How about even 1 of his off field horrors? And how about a teensy bit of evidence that he's a "spoiled rich kid?" While you're doing this research to back up your so far unsupported assertions, could you also present some evidence that he's an " arrogant intellectual"?

Ill help,

Hot tub in his dorm room

 

Wearing a hat adorned with a curse word on it relating to our President while golfing at a golf course the President owns.

 

Stereotyping players who go to Alabama as uneducated people who wouldnt make it at other colleges

 

How much do you think it costs to golf at Trump's course?  Just following up on the arrogant rich kid portion here.


Edited by thenorthremembers, 17 August 2017 - 02:37 PM.


#130 #BADOL

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:37 PM

 

In other words, he spent money when it supports your argument?   

 

You can't argue that Wilson was a mercurial figure whose whims yoyo'ed the direction of the franchise and then be miffed that the Bills were never in contention for Manning.  Manning's availability came exactly at Wilson's low spending point.  So you can't have it both ways.  If Manning was available in 2002, I bet that he would be very much in contention for Buffalo.

 

.

 

The Bills signed Mario Williams and Mark Anderson in that same offseason..........Williams alone cost near QB money..........Wilson's low spending point :doh: ..........c'mon dude you are just pulling this stuff out of yourasss.



#131 yungmack

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:58 PM

Ill help,
Hot tub in his dorm room
 
Wearing a hat adorned with a curse word on it relating to our President while golfing at a golf course the President owns.
 
Stereotyping players who go to Alabama as uneducated people who wouldnt make it at other colleges
 
How much do you think it costs to golf at Trump's course?  Just following up on the arrogant rich kid portion here.

In a sport - big time college football - where it's almost commonplace to hear about players arrested for rape, assaults, drug use, robbery and any number of truly serious off field behavior, this is pretty thin soup, wouldn't you say?.

In reverse order:

Probably golfed for free, as a guest.

Didn't say what you claim he said about Alabama players. Not even close.

A vulgar word about Trump? Not surprising that "regular folks" are behaving coarsely when the president himself is vulgar, loutish, sexist and racist. "What's sauce for the goose..." and all that.

Inflatable hot tub in his dorm room? What's next with this kid? A coffee maker in his room? The most shocking thing about this is...he lives in a dorm room like an ordinary studens and not in off-campus digs like so many other big time athletes do (check out USC). He must be a reverse snob. No way we want someone like him in Buffalo.

#132 thenorthremembers

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:12 PM

In a sport - big time college football - where it's almost commonplace to hear about players arrested for rape, assaults, drug use, robbery and any number of truly serious off field behavior, this is pretty thin soup, wouldn't you say?.

In reverse order:

Probably golfed for free, as a guest.

Didn't say what you claim he said about Alabama players. Not even close.

A vulgar word about Trump? Not surprising that "regular folks" are behaving coarsely when the president himself is vulgar, loutish, sexist and racist. "What's sauce for the goose..." and all that.

Inflatable hot tub in his dorm room? What's next with this kid? A coffee maker in his room? The most shocking thing about this is...he lives in a dorm room like an ordinary studens and not in off-campus digs like so many other big time athletes do (check out USC). He must be a reverse snob. No way we want someone like him in Buffalo.

His exact quote on Alabama players

 

"OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have." So yes, that is very close to saying Alabama players are less educated than players at other schools, or wouldnt be able to make it at other schools due to their lack of education or intelligence.  How is that not close?

 

Secondly, the fact that he wore the hat is a fact.   You made an assumption he didnt pay to golf there.  

 

Third, just because the person you are being vulgar about is indeed vulgar, it does not negate the fact you're being vulgar and disrespectful.  Not going to get into it about the President.

 

Lastly, I dont rightfully care if he is a jerk, Just dont want him on the Bills.



#133 yungmack

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:23 PM

His exact quote on Alabama players
 
"OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have." So yes, that is very close to saying Alabama players are less educated than players at other schools, or wouldnt be able to make it at other schools due to their lack of education or intelligence.  How is that not close?
 
Secondly, the fact that he wore the hat is a fact.   You made an assumption he didnt pay to golf there.  
 
Third, just because the person you are being vulgar about is indeed vulgar, it does not negate the fact you're being vulgar and disrespectful.  Not going to get into it about the President.
 
Lastly, I dont rightfully care if he is a jerk, Just dont want him on the Bills.

You see, he didn't say what you first said he did about Alabama. Talking SAT scores, not intelligence. Talking program standards, not individuals. You can't believe the average 'Bama players academic qualifications are on a par with, say, the average Stanford player.

#134 #BADOL

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:23 PM

 

I think you're right about this.  Josh Rosen ain't ruining his brand by coming to Buffalo.

 

 

Yeah he's not the "just glad to be here" type that you'd need to be to accept being forced to work for the Buffalo Bills........his agent will have the horror stories in hand for him if he doesn't already know......and I doubt he'd accept exile to Cleveland either.

 

Their sincerest hope should be that Tyrod takes huge steps because he's entrenched and a mobile type whose remaining career probably skews too short for him to mess around with franchise tags.   Losing Sammy hurts those chances, IMO.



#135 kdiggz

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:19 PM

Rosen on right now on Fox. He's my favorite but like the title of this thread says, good chance he stays in school. He's very close with Jim Mora Jr, he grew up in his neighborhood (yes his parents are rich). Hopefully he comes out but I'd say better chance he stays

#136 #BADOL

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:27 PM

Rosen on right now on Fox. He's my favorite but like the title of this thread says, good chance he stays in school. He's very close with Jim Mora Jr, he grew up in his neighborhood (yes his parents are rich). Hopefully he comes out but I'd say better chance he stays

 

 

Well, on the plus side........after disposing of the good young talent from recent draft classes there is a chance the Bills could do a Sabres-esque triple tank and trap him after his senior year!   You can run Rosen....... :flirt:



#137 kdiggz

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:28 PM

Well, on the plus side........after disposing of the good young talent from recent draft classes there is a chance the Bills could do a Sabres-esque triple tank and trap him after his senior year!   You can run Rosen....... :flirt:


Haha you can't stay in school forever! I like it