Jump to content


Photo

Mahomes is looking good


  • Please log in to reply
409 replies to this topic

#401 BuffaloHokie13

BuffaloHokie13

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,112 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 04:14 PM

Ok. Will this thread last the next 3-5 years?

Depends how well you use the search function when the time comes :)



#402 JohnC

JohnC

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,291 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:45 PM



Reid passed on Derek Carr and Deshaun Watson. He is not a QB expert like you make him out to be. And I don't believe in taking a QB just to take one. That's how you get an EJ Manuel in the 1st round.

You get an EJ caliber qb in the first round when your organization isn't very adept in evaluating qbs. It's been close to a quarter century since the Bills have had an established franchise qb, since the retirement of Kelly. I don't understand why you cited Reid passing on Deshaun Watson in this past draft? He favored Mahomes in the same draft and then made the deal to get him. 



#403 OldTimeAFLGuy

OldTimeAFLGuy

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,501 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:49 PM

You get an EJ caliber qb in the first round when your organization isn't very adept in evaluating qbs. It's been close to a quarter century since the Bills have had an established franchise qb, since the retirement of Kelly. I don't understand why you cited Reid passing on Deshaun Watson in this past draft? He favored Mahomes in the same draft and then made the deal to get him. 

 

....and now he and Cardale are bonafide #2's on their respective club's final 53....uh oh...........just sayin'......



#404 HappyDays

HappyDays

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,715 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 05:59 PM

You get an EJ caliber qb in the first round when your organization isn't very adept in evaluating qbs. It's been close to a quarter century since the Bills have had an established franchise qb, since the retirement of Kelly. I don't understand why you cited Reid passing on Deshaun Watson in this past draft? He favored Mahomes in the same draft and then made the deal to get him. 


Woah I didn't even notice until now I wrote Deshaun Watson. I meant Dak Prescott. You get the idea.

#405 JohnC

JohnC

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,291 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:18 PM

Woah I didn't even notice until now I wrote Deshaun Watson. I meant Dak Prescott. You get the idea.

I've had made this point on a number of occasions so I apologize for the redundancy. When a team doesn't have a franchise qb it needs to take a more aggressive and proactive approach in finding qbs in the draft. Prescott is another demonstration by the Bills of passing on a qb when he could have been had at a reasonable point in the draft. My concern is not with other teams missing out on qb prospects as it is with the western NY team passing on prospects. 



#406 Scott7975

Scott7975

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 882 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:23 PM

I've had made this point on a number of occasions so I apologize for the redundancy. When a team doesn't have a franchise qb it needs to take a more aggressive and proactive approach in finding qbs in the draft. Prescott is another demonstration by the Bills of passing on a qb when he could have been had at a reasonable point in the draft. My concern is not with other teams missing out on qb prospects as it is with the western NY team passing on prospects. 

People always point to the Bills passing on a specific QB that luckily worked out for a team that nabbed him.  In doing so they skip over the mass amount of QBs that were also passed on that didn't work out at all.



#407 JohnC

JohnC

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,291 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:39 PM



People always point to the Bills passing on a specific QB that luckily worked out for a team that nabbed him.  In doing so they skip over the mass amount of QBs that were also passed on that didn't work out at all.

The Bills have not had a franchise qb since the retirement of Kelly, over 20 years. When you don't have a franchise qb you have to keep attempting to get one. If one doesn't work out then you keep at it. Being passive or timid because it is such a difficult endeavor to accomplish is a mentality that results in a generation of more losing. 



#408 dave mcbride

dave mcbride

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,030 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:43 PM

People always point to the Bills passing on a specific QB that luckily worked out for a team that nabbed him.  In doing so they skip over the mass amount of QBs that were also passed on that didn't work out at all.

The Bills haven't had a semi-elite qb this century. Bledsoe doesn't count given his flop in the last 8 games of 2002 (8 TDs and 10 INTs in the last 8 games).



#409 Zerovotlz

Zerovotlz

    Probation

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 11 posts

Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:21 PM

The Bills have not had a franchise qb since the retirement of Kelly, over 20 years. When you don't have a franchise qb you have to keep attempting to get one. If one doesn't work out then you keep at it. Being passive or timid because it is such a difficult endeavor to accomplish is a mentality that results in a generation of more losing. 

I alluded to this in an earlier post.  The game is QB driven.  Your roster can be outstanding and it better have a generational defensive group if you have a pedestrian QB...otherwise, you need a QB.  For every NFL franchise, the smartest thing to do would be to draft, sign, whatever until you find a guy who can play it at a high level.  .....to the guy who pointed out most QB's flop....Yes...the vast majority of them do...wich is another reason why you draft, sign, scout the CFL.  You never know where you might find one....but based on numbers if you look it up and do some math...most of the guys who have ultimately been "great" (super bowl winners or runners up) were generally drafted in the first round. A very rare few were drafted in rounds 2-4 (Brees, Montana etc) NONE ever in round 5, 1 in round six (Brady, the flukish late rounder turned hall of fame good) and a couple 7th round or later or undrafted (Brad Johnson, Curt Warner)  If you just did the percentages of ALL QB drafted outside round 1, it was like 1% who ever made it to a super bowl.  Round 1, something in the neighborhood of 30% had made it.  that's still a 70% fail rate if the measurement is super bowls...and for outside round 1, 99% chance your guy probably really is the turd his draft profile said he was.



#410 JohnC

JohnC

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,291 posts

Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:54 AM

 

....and now he and Cardale are bonafide #2's on their respective club's final 53....uh oh...........just sayin'......

Bona fide #2s as starters get you nowhere. A first round pick wasn't invested in him to be a #2. I wish Cardale well. When he was drafted by Whaley it was recognized that he was a long term project. Under the new regime Peterson simply beat him out because he was more suited to McDermott's offense. The organization had an opportunity to draft Prescott in the Cardale draft year. While we pass opportunities other teams seize on them. 


I alluded to this in an earlier post.  The game is QB driven.  Your roster can be outstanding and it better have a generational defensive group if you have a pedestrian QB...otherwise, you need a QB.  For every NFL franchise, the smartest thing to do would be to draft, sign, whatever until you find a guy who can play it at a high level.  .....to the guy who pointed out most QB's flop....Yes...the vast majority of them do...wich is another reason why you draft, sign, scout the CFL.  You never know where you might find one....but based on numbers if you look it up and do some math...most of the guys who have ultimately been "great" (super bowl winners or runners up) were generally drafted in the first round. A very rare few were drafted in rounds 2-4 (Brees, Montana etc) NONE ever in round 5, 1 in round six (Brady, the flukish late rounder turned hall of fame good) and a couple 7th round or later or undrafted (Brad Johnson, Curt Warner)  If you just did the percentages of ALL QB drafted outside round 1, it was like 1% who ever made it to a super bowl.  Round 1, something in the neighborhood of 30% had made it.  that's still a 70% fail rate if the measurement is super bowls...and for outside round 1, 99% chance your guy probably really is the turd his draft profile said he was.

 

There is nothing you said I disagree with. There is also a theme that has afflicted this woebegone franchise for many years: it's mediocre drafting record. It simply has not been good enough. Included along with the firing of Whaley the Pegulas let go all the scouts and started over. That was a radical thing to do and it was also the right thing to do.