Jump to content


Photo

2016 TALENT VS. 2017 TALENT


  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#61 chris heff

chris heff

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,440 posts

Posted 23 August 2017 - 11:24 PM

You're not paying attention their is no need for talent when you have a team.

#62 Bills Pimpin'

Bills Pimpin'

    Practice Squad

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 140 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 05:44 AM

You're not paying attention their is no need for talent when you have a team.


Naw... you need talent, it just depends on the type of talent a coach wants. Are you the guy that likes the fragile, always hurt with "bruises" and "pain", out for themselves, can't get on the field type of player with unrealized talent? Kinda like Watkins and Goodwin? Or do you like the guy that plays through injury and pain, thinks about the the team and out produces his talent? Like Jordan Matthews? McD like the later and yes he believes it improves the "team", it is his philosophy.
Are you arguing against this philosophy after the last 3 years of going after the "I'm the most talented, fastest player give me my money" guy (Whaley philosophy) but won't go to a team meeting? It had us in a perpetual 7-9, 8-8 record with no end in sight.

I would love to get K Williams take on some of your talent guys McD got off the team.

#63 PolishDave

PolishDave

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,330 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:56 AM

Nice of you to bring Beane into the equation, but unfortunately he is not a coach so when making and argument about coaching it would be smart not to bring him into the conversation.(Although if you would like to have a GM argument about Beane VS. Whaley I will have that as well.)

It's also nice for you to bring Tyrod into the conversation since the problems you state he has are problems stemming from the coaching he has received the last 2 years who you are defending. I appreciate you helping my argument with that.

Although it is true I whole heartily believe McD is a significantly better head coach based on the last 6 months of listening to his philosphies vs. your boy Sexy Rexy, when I speak of coaching I am talking about the entire staff which is filled with some superbowl winners a ton experience and a former head coach. McD has assembled an experienced collection of coaches respected around the league and not a collection of misfits who has either followed Rex around the league for 10 years with mediocre to poor records, recently retired with no coaching experience or was family who was dismal at his job the last few years. In fact one of the only coaches worth his salt last year was fired by Rex when he disagreed with him.

You may think the team will be worse and that is fine and you have stated a few reasons why, but your argument that they will be worse because the coaching is worse is terrible.

This years coaching is better.

 

You are addicted to drama and overly emotional.  No reason to be.   It is just a discussion.  Rex certainly isn't my "boy" as you put it.

 

I already stated I have no affinity for Rex.  Glad he's gone.   I don't think he is a great coach.   I think Rex is an average coach.   His record and actions both show that.

 

You are calling this year's coaching better when there is zero evidence of that.    The only proof we have is the two preseason games.   And in those games there were some bad signs.   1) punting from inside opponents 40 & 2) ridiculous number of penalties.

 

But your crystal ball tells you that McDermott is an above average coach anyway even though there is literally zero evidence to support it.

 

McDermott might prove himself to be a better coach.   I hope he does.   I hope he becomes the greatest coach the NFL has ever seen while coaching Buffalo.  All I am saying is that stating with certainty that he is better right now - is complete and total B.S. - and totally biased homerism.   McDermott has to prove it first.  So far he has not proven he is better at all (at least not as an NFL coach).

 

And yes I do think the Bills will be worse this year than last -better run defense - worse pass defense - worse running and passing offense.   But that is primarily because of personnel - not coaching.   I don't know if the coaching is going to be better or not.   Neither do you.    That's why I called you out on it.  



#64 ScottLaw

ScottLaw

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,957 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 11:15 AM

 
You are addicted to drama and overly emotional.  No reason to be.   It is just a discussion.  Rex certainly isn't my "boy" as you put it.
 
I already stated I have no affinity for Rex.  Glad he's gone.   I don't think he is a great coach.   I think Rex is an average coach.   His record and actions both show that.
 
You are calling this year's coaching better when there is zero evidence of that.    The only proof we have is the two preseason games.   And in those games there were some bad signs.   1) punting from inside opponents 40 & 2) ridiculous number of penalties.
 
But your crystal ball tells you that McDermott is an above average coach anyway even though there is literally zero evidence to support it.
 
McDermott might prove himself to be a better coach.   I hope he does.   I hope he becomes the greatest coach the NFL has ever seen while coaching Buffalo.  All I am saying is that stating with certainty that he is better right now - is complete and total B.S. - and totally biased homerism.   McDermott has to prove it first.  So far he has not proven he is better at all (at least not as an NFL coach).
 
And yes I do think the Bills will be worse this year than last -better run defense - worse pass defense - worse running and passing offense.   But that is primarily because of personnel - not coaching.   I don't know if the coaching is going to be better or not.   Neither do you.    That's why I called you out on it.  


I'd be shocked if they weren't better coached and performed better on defense.

Offensively they will take a step back. New system that doesn't necessarily fit the personnel. This offense was good last season despite many naysayers shooting it down.

#65 Bills Pimpin'

Bills Pimpin'

    Practice Squad

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 140 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:22 PM

 

You are addicted to drama and overly emotional.  No reason to be.   It is just a discussion.  Rex certainly isn't my "boy" as you put it.

 

I already stated I have no affinity for Rex.  Glad he's gone.   I don't think he is a great coach.   I think Rex is an average coach.   His record and actions both show that.

 

You are calling this year's coaching better when there is zero evidence of that.    The only proof we have is the two preseason games.   And in those games there were some bad signs.   1) punting from inside opponents 40 & 2) ridiculous number of penalties.

 

But your crystal ball tells you that McDermott is an above average coach anyway even though there is literally zero evidence to support it.

 

McDermott might prove himself to be a better coach.   I hope he does.   I hope he becomes the greatest coach the NFL has ever seen while coaching Buffalo.  All I am saying is that stating with certainty that he is better right now - is complete and total B.S. - and totally biased homerism.   McDermott has to prove it first.  So far he has not proven he is better at all (at least not as an NFL coach).

 

And yes I do think the Bills will be worse this year than last -better run defense - worse pass defense - worse running and passing offense.   But that is primarily because of personnel - not coaching.   I don't know if the coaching is going to be better or not.   Neither do you.    That's why I called you out on it.  

I'm really not emotional about it at all. I'm simply debating whether the coaching will be better or worse in 2017 and I guess as far as gameday coaching you are correct that we won't know for sure until McD actually coaches this year. And I will also agree that he will go through a learning curve since this is his rookie head coaching year. I would hope you would agree that after looking at the overall philosophy and current coaching staff is better than what we had with Rex. 


I'd be shocked if they weren't better coached and performed better on defense.

Offensively they will take a step back. New system that doesn't necessarily fit the personnel. This offense was good last season despite many naysayers shooting it down.

 

I tend to agree with this. I think though that the decrease in offense won't be substantial and is worth it due to the draft picks gained.



#66 C.Biscuit97

C.Biscuit97

    Ladies' Man

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,877 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:44 PM

Look, our players may not be as physically talented as they were last year. But they are super nice guys that your grandmother would love. That's what really matters in the NFL.

#67 oldmanfan

oldmanfan

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,405 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:46 PM

Look, our players may not be as physically talented as they were last year. But they are super nice guys that your grandmother would love. That's what really matters in the NFL.

.

Other than Sammybthey are as physucallybralenttd as last year. Our CBs might eve tackle someone on a run play

#68 C.Biscuit97

C.Biscuit97

    Ladies' Man

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,877 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:50 PM

.

Other than Sammybthey are as physucallybralenttd as last year. Our CBs might eve tackle someone on a run play


This corner tackling thing is the most overrated thing ever. 190 lbs corners aren't supposed to be great tacklers. I'd rather have a cover who can cover like Deion Sanders than one who can tackle like Dick Butkus.

But what does that clown Belichick know anyways.

#69 ScottLaw

ScottLaw

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,957 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:54 PM

This corner tackling thing is the most overrated thing ever. 190 lbs corners aren't supposed to be great tacklers. I'd rather have a cover who can cover like Deion Sanders than one who can tackle like Dick Butkus.

But what does that clown Belichick know anyways.


It's just sour grapes.

Typical reaction when a good player leaves via FA or is traded.

#70 oldmanfan

oldmanfan

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,405 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:59 PM

It's just sour grapes.

Typical reaction when a good player leaves via FA or is traded.


Typical of you to be negative about everything. Going position by position other than Sammy we really have not lost a ton of physical talent. CB Gilmore was a good cover guy but poor tackler and the McD approach you need a guy that can cover in zone and provide run support. The LBs maybe at one spot. We're better at safety. D line and O lines the same. TE the same. Jones and Matthews at WR lose Sammy but other than that better. Same QB and RB. And the FB is touted as the best blocking FB in the league.

So now argue instead of pithy little comments.

#71 Sweats

Sweats

    Practice Squad

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 196 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 04:20 PM

 

The position of your nose is closer to the Bills' butt

 

 

 

Hear, hear............i 2nd this.



#72 TPS

TPS

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,561 posts

Posted 24 August 2017 - 07:28 PM

Because you've removed 127 receptions from that crop and replaced them with 114--and that's if we only look at 2016.  If we look at 2015, then we're talking about Sammy at full health, and that's what you were looking at for 2017 prior to the trade.  Furthermore, you've taken out of the mix the only WR that your QB has ever had any established level of trust and comfort.  That's a massive blow to a passing game that relied almost exclusively on big-plays to operate at any reasonable level of efficiency.
 
So I'll toss the question back to you, which group is more talented:
 
Group A: Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Walt Powell, Justin Hunter, Brandon Tate
Group B: Zay Jones, Jordan Matthews, Andre Holmes, Walt Powell, Brandon Tate, Corey Brown, Rod Streater
 
It's a clear, obvious, significant downgrade in ability IMO.  I don't see how a reasonable, educated football fan could see otherwise.

Your example is why I don't like the focus of the thread, which team or area is more talented? The more important question is, will this team improve on O, D, and ST, translating into more wins?

For your question, group A is more talented because of Sammy, but that doesn't mean that this year's group as a whole won't be more productive than last year's, which wasnt very good. It's quite possible the passing game overall will be better due to scheme and Tyrod improving, leading to an improvement in point production.

The biggest improvement for the team will be on D because the talent is better suited to the scheme, even though the talent is only marginally better than last year's on the whole.

From this perspective, I think the Bills will most likely improve the most on D, as measured by ppg, because of scheme, they should be better on ST because of Haushka, and I think the O should be as productive as last year. That should translate to more wins, but they also have a tougher schedule. Only time will tell...