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The Insanity of Tanking Talk


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#141 JerseyBills

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 01:05 AM

I'd take It a step further and say if we can stay relatively healthy we could be a contender now.

Imo it all comes down to how improved our defense is, and I believe through scheme and coach change,they will vastly improve.

A top 10 D combined with our Elite run game has always been a recipe for success in the NFL, through every era, including today's NFL, and we could realistically have both , I also have hope Taylor will improve his pass game but at the very least he will not lose us games

#142 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 08:30 AM

I would take the embarrassment of a winless season if it would give us a shot of drafting franchise QB , we pretty much tried everything for the past 17 years , and that's in it's self ( IMO ) is even a bigger embarrassment then one winless season ,
+1

 

Previous mediocre results don't justify pursuing an unproven strategy. 



#143 Thunderstealer

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 09:20 AM

I know everyone seems to struggle with nuance here.
 
Up until recently "tanking" was not part of the sports vocabulary. You can build something without tanking. That is what the Bills are doing.
 

  • The Bills already have 6 picks in the top 100 next year. They will have great flexibility to go after a QB if they are dissatisfied with Taylor at the end of 2017.
 
  • Peterman was picked to be a backup. Mid-round rookie QBs occasionally turn into Kirk Cousins, but regardless they are great ways to have cost-controlled backups who turn into future trade assets. New England has been doing this for years (Hoyer, Mallet, Jimmy G, etc.) We could get lucky with him, but right now he is completing 50% of his passes against the 2nd and 3rd stringers. He is not remotely prepared to start an NFL football game.
 
  • Taylor could probably garner a 3rd rounder at this point - not a game-changer given the ammo the Bills already have. Somehow one bad preseason game proves that he cannot play and yet we could get great value for him. Okay.
 
  • McCoy was traded 2 1/2 years ago and the Eagles got nothing. The Bills would not profit from that trade and he would represent a ton of dead money. Trading Kyle Williams would get what, a 5th round pick?
 
  • The idea that the Boldin retirement would trigger a tank is bizarre and would truly mean that this team has no plan. Up until he signed, most Bills fans had given up on the idea that he was coming in the first place.
 
McDermott and Beane know that they are in the mushy middle of the AFC - nowhere close to Pats and Steelers, but several steps above the misery of Jags, Browns, and Jets. They HAVE to build for 2018 and beyond - and they have been doing that starting with the trade down for Tre White. The Watkins trade fits in that framework, but IT DOES NOT REPRESENT A TANK. Look at the Bovada odds - the Bills expected win total did not go down. Watkins or not, they are at best a wild-card team this year. They are like 10 other teams in the AFC that could win between 6 and 10 games depending on injuries, officiating, schedule, penalties, etc. The wild card is a worthy and realistic goal to compete for and would be a huge step towards where the team wants to go. Even if they go 7-9 again, McDermott wants this team "in the hunt" until December. It doesn't help him to start of his coaching career by going 3-13 with Nate Peterman. You are always on the clock in the NFL.
 
One great indicator of an executive's success is his/her ability to be future-oriented. If you read War Room you will see Belichick/Pioli were looking at the future, even as their '02 team unexpectedly went on a run and made the Super Bowl. Because of Brady's unexpected rise, the Pats have always been able to focus on the future. This is the way that McDermott and Beane are trying to run the team but it does not mean strip-mining the current roster.

The heavy lifting is done. We can go 12/4 and still have great draft possibilities. However when Thanksgiving rolls around, if we're not looking good, I can see us folding like a lawn chair.

#144 JerseyBills

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:03 AM

I don't think the problem is 7-9.  The Pats continue to exceed year over year in spite of the hugely positive winning record each year.  The issue has been that we are a very poor organization from talent evaluation to coaching to finances. Whaley by himself set us back nearly a decade.  
2013 Draft: E.J. Manuel, Robert Woods, Kiko Alonso, Marquise Goodwin, Duke Williams, Jonathan Meeks, Dustin Hopkins, Chris Gragg  - Grade: F
2014 Draft: Sammy Watkins, Cyrus Kouandjio, Preston Brown, Ross Cockrell, Cyril Richardson, Randell Johnson, Seantrel Henderson - Grade: F

Doug Whaley gave up 3 picks to move up to No. 4 in 2014 to draft Sammy Watkins. 

5 receivers from that draft have more TDs than he does!

2015 Draft: Ronald Darby, John Miller, Karlos Williams, Tony Steward, Nick O'Leary, Dezmin Lewis - Grade: C+
2016 Draft: Shaq Lawson, Reggie Ragland, Adolphus Washington, Cardale Jones, Jonathan Williams, Kolby Listenbee, Kevon Seymour - Grade: C (TBD could only move lower)
 
Rex made the hole deeper and squandered the talent he had at the time.  The new guys offer a breath of fresh air that I welcome.  Time will tell as to whether they are the real deal and help us become successful. 
Last year's draft should end up as a goodie I'm. Feel Shaq will be a stud, Adolphus is going to be good, Seymour and Williams as well. That's four major contributors plus a talented Ragland who hopefully comes on.
This year's draft I like too. White being a stud allowed the Darby trade and we have a number one cb for five years.

#145 ScottLaw

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:28 AM

The heavy lifting is done. We can go 12/4 and still have great draft possibilities. However when Thanksgiving rolls around, if we're not looking good, I can see us folding like a lawn chair.


As long as we are in the "in the hunt" caption on CBS.

#146 Boatdrinks

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:37 AM

I'd take It a step further and say if we can stay relatively healthy we could be a contender now.
Imo it all comes down to how improved our defense is, and I believe through scheme and coach change,they will vastly improve.
A top 10 D combined with our Elite run game has always been a recipe for success in the NFL, through every era, including today's NFL, and we could realistically have both , I also have hope Taylor will improve his pass game but at the very least he will not lose us games


Scheme and Coaching changes on D won't mask the lack of talent and depth on this unit. They will make marginal improvements from last year, but stats may look worse overall because the Offense will be less productive than last season . They will be in worse situations most of the year .

#147 joesixpack

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 01:07 PM

As long as we are in the "in the hunt" caption on CBS.

 

AIDS



#148 reddogblitz

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 03:39 PM

I'd take It a step further and say if we can stay relatively healthy we could be a contender now.
Imo it all comes down to how improved our defense is, and I believe through scheme and coach change,they will vastly improve.
A top 10 D combined with our Elite run game has always been a recipe for success in the NFL, through every era, including today's NFL, and we could realistically have both , I also have hope Taylor will improve his pass game but at the very least he will not lose us games


Yeah!!

I think our D will better. O has to be almost as good.

#149 The Frankish Reich

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:06 AM

Call it a tank, call it a pseudo-tank, call it whatever you want ... they chose the wrong year to do it.  Jets: utter disarray. Hackenberg is playing himself right out of the NFL. McCown is 37 and they don't want to be forced into starting him, but they now are; Bryce Petty showed something last night, then promptly suffered what looks like a serious knee injury. So we've got Cutler and McCown at the helm of 2 AFC East teams. That should be 4 wins out there for the taking! Yes, you've always got the Pats, but still ... one last run with the current (including Sammy and Darby) roster wouldn't have been a horrible idea, would it?



#150 Billsfan1972

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 08:28 AM

Call it a tank, call it a pseudo-tank, call it whatever you want ... they chose the wrong year to do it.  Jets: utter disarray. Hackenberg is playing himself right out of the NFL. McCown is 37 and they don't want to be forced into starting him, but they now are; Bryce Petty showed something last night, then promptly suffered what looks like a serious knee injury. So we've got Cutler and McCown at the helm of 2 AFC East teams. That should be 4 wins out there for the taking! Yes, you've always got the Pats, but still ... one last run with the current (including Sammy and Darby) roster wouldn't have been a horrible idea, would it?

Seemed to make sense, but the staff wants 4-12 (though will pay lip service to making the playoffs).



#151 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 10:22 AM

@PFWeekly

NFL clubs don’t tank seasons, and they never will, so stop with the insulting suggestion, says @greggabe: http://www.profootba...ndex.xml?page=1

 

Over the past week or so, I have seen some NFL “analysts” suggest on Twitter that some clubs would “tank” the 2017 NFL season in order to get a shot at some of the supposed top quarterbacks in the 2018 NFL Draft. Quite frankly, they were and still are some of the most absurd and insulting comments I have ever read. Just the fact that some of these people would suggest such a thing shows you and me that they aren’t really as intuitive as they think they are when it comes to the NFL.

 

 



#152 thunderingsquid

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 10:38 AM

Switch to W Coast offense, switch to unfamiliar zone blocking scheme and trade away all of Tyrod's speed WRs and you get:

 

#stealthtank



#153 Dr. Who

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 11:21 AM

Switch to W Coast offense, switch to unfamiliar zone blocking scheme and trade away all of Tyrod's speed WRs and you get:

 

#stealthtank

It's the only thing that makes giving Vlad all those reps rational.



#154 ScottLaw

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 11:33 AM

Switch to W Coast offense, switch to unfamiliar zone blocking scheme and trade away all of Tyrod's speed WRs and you get:
 
#stealthtank


Or just a couple of really stubborn coaches