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WEEK 1: ALL 22 REVIEW - O LINE PASS PROT /QB UNFORCED ERRORS


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#41 Bray Wyatt

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:33 PM

 

Ok.. yes. Upon further review it looks like TT was staring at Zay Jones as his first read and comes back to Clay second read.

 

So it is not so clear cut that this was an unforced error.

 

My criticism is that he still could have seen that Jones was not good option earlier and moved on to second read a little faster. That is nitpicking I suppose on my part though.

 

No worries, im not defending or excusing just posting what I see. Also as others have said, thanks for doing this :thumbsup:



#42 Last Guy on the Bench

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:37 PM

These are great as usual. Thanks, again.

 

I think that gif of the goalline play to Clay again shows that he should have caught the ball, hits him in two hands, in addition to being a late throw and behind him. But he has to catch that. I would expect Nick O'Leary to catch that.

 

One thing that came to mind though as I read the post was that there probably was a good chance that TT waited so long because the play before the ball was batted down at the line. If you look close, the Jets DE is in his eyeline when waiting for Clay to get open. If he throws early as everyone wanted him to, including me, it could be batted down again. So he waits the extra beat, the DE is taken a little wider by Glenn, and then TT throws. That could be it in a nutshell, rather than he holds it way too long like he often does.

 

Still not a good pass and still needs to be caught anyway.

Yes - that was my thought as well, watching it in slow motion. It's tricky to see because of the elevated camera perspective. But I think Taylor clearly waited until he had a throwing lane. Throw could still have been more accurate, but I do think the d-lineman caused the timing issue. Either way, Clay should definitely have caught the ball.



#43 Bocephuz

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:37 PM

I really disagree with the first Miller "whiff."  Look at the play again, it is a mis-direction, Taylor fakes the handoff and then rolls right without looking at what is happening behind him.  Miller slides left and takes the nose tackle and keeps him from pressuring Taylor from the backside.  The LB made the initial pressure, not the nose guard that was Miller's assignment.

 

I would respectfully counter with:

 

 - The LB is the "free man" on the play... Meaning TT is accountable for the LB. Clay is not responsible for blocking the LB as he is going into the flat to catch the ball. In other words TT needs to figure out how to get around that "free man" to make the play

 

- Miller is slow getting over and lazily just pushes the DT's shoulders instead of getting in front of him on his chest numbers and squaring him up. If Miller does a better job on the backside there TT likely has more time and works around the LB and either completes throw to Clay or runs for some yards.



#44 Captain Murica

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:39 PM

Still think Clay should've caught that ball, he'd tell you that himself more than likely. Wasn't the only drop he had on the day. Both he and TT need to clean it up. 



#45 Bocephuz

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:41 PM

Holy Schmoly!  Jordan Mills received the highest grade?  That's encouraging.

 

Bo, nice work.  I usually watch games like a typical fan and follow the ball.  Only once in a while do I keep my eyes on the linemen instead.  

 

Your analysis gives me a clearer idea of what's happening in the trenches.  Thanks.

 

Thanks.  A few years back I started to focus on one of the linemen on the snap ( usually a tackle .. but sometimes a guard) and it changed my perspective a bit. That being said.. it's hard to pick this stuff up in real time with sideline camera.. so I wait until the All 22 comes out on game pass so I can make better observations 


 

Agreed.  And I am sorry, no QB delivers the ball perfectly every throw.  So even if one wants to argue that the ball could have been placed slightly better, it does not excuse our starting TE from letting a pass go through both his hands right in front of his face from about 7 yards away.  That is a throw I will take any QB throwing 100% of the time.  The TE, who is among the highest paid in the NFL, absolutely does not get a pass for not catch that throw.  Its essentially the same throw as a back shoulder throw, which is a mandatory pass any receiving target is expected to catch in the NFL.  

 

But to the OP...I appreciate your work and write up and enjoy reading it, but I just don't agree thats a QB error which would be an uncatchable pass or very low % throw with high risk.  The pass to Clay was neither of those and our TE blew it again.  

 

Thanks.

 

I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with all of my conclusions.. the spirit of these posts is to generate solid informed discussion which this one has done so far 



#46 UB2SF

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:48 PM

Thanks for doing this again -- really appreciate the effort.  Was especially good to see the breakdown of the goal-line INT.  With the madness that ensued after the play, the network didn't really show what happened on the INT itself.  I kept rewinding and I literally couldn't even tell which receiver was the intended target!



#47 Alphadawg7

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:50 PM

 

Thanks.  A few years back I started to focus on one of the linemen on the snap ( usually a tackle .. but sometimes a guard) and it changed my perspective a bit. That being said.. it's hard to pick this stuff up in real time with sideline camera.. so I wait until the All 22 comes out on game pass so I can make better observations 


 

Thanks.

 

I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with all of my conclusions.. the spirit of these posts is to generate solid informed discussion which this one has done so far 

 

Exactly, no one will ever agree with everything.  I certainly enjoy reading peoples thoughts out opinions on things like this, so big kudos to the time it takes to do it all.  And like I said, I rather enjoyed the write up, bang up job bud.  The one thing I am just adamant about is Clay not getting this excuse that it was a bad pass because he has continually come up short in his time in Buffalo.  

 

He is very talented and athletic, but his mental focus and lapses just frustrate me and at some point he needs to be held accountable.  Too many times on key plays he runs a sloppy route, seems to dog it, drop a pass, or not even look for the ball despite running a passing route.  

 

The last 2 years, there have been times where Clay was open and TT just didn't see him, and TT stated he's aware of that and talked to Clay about it.  So I am hoping that some of those mental lapses came out of frustration by Clay and that an offense where TT looks for him more and the OC calls his number more will keep Clay more mentally engaged from play to play.  Not that frustration is an acceptable excuse, because you need to give 100% all the time, but at least if that was a factor its possible to reduce it with a higher usage rate.



#48 HappyDays

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:56 PM

Finished reading it. Excellent breakdown! Did you see any plays with receivers running wide open that Tyrod missed? This is the prevailing narrative about Tyrod but I haven't seen it from any reviews of this game.

Buffalo News should have Bocephuz and Shaw66 as columnists. I'm not paying a monthly subscription fee to read Jerry Sullivan whine abour random crap. Crazy that content provided for free right here on TSW is better than the paid professionals.

Edited by HappyDays, 13 September 2017 - 12:56 PM.


#49 Bongo

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:59 PM

Love what you've done here. Really, this is great. Intelligent football conversation!

 

That said, I do have to say I am on the opposite side of the fence regarding the interception play. In my opinion that was a great throw by TT. I put it fully at the feet of Clay. I believe that Clay had cleared the backside defender but had the potential of being lit up by the defender he was running towards. I believe TT threw to his back shoulder to help protect him and that the ball was well within the catch radius; not a huge adjustment. But that's my opinion and we know what they say about opinions.

 

Thanks again and great job.



#50 MDFan

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:59 PM

Nice analysis by the OP. Appreciate the work. One minor point: on the last item listed, I believe TT deliberately threw that at Mills feet. The play was not there. Good decision actually.

#51 Bocephuz

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:00 PM

 

Exactly, no one will ever agree with everything.  I certainly enjoy reading peoples thoughts out opinions on things like this, so big kudos to the time it takes to do it all.  And like I said, I rather enjoyed the write up, bang up job bud.  The one thing I am just adamant about is Clay not getting this excuse that it was a bad pass because he has continually come up short in his time in Buffalo.  

 

He is very talented and athletic, but his mental focus and lapses just frustrate me and at some point he needs to be held accountable.  Too many times on key plays he runs a sloppy route, seems to dog it, drop a pass, or not even look for the ball despite running a passing route.  

 

The last 2 years, there have been times where Clay was open and TT just didn't see him, and TT stated he's aware of that and talked to Clay about it.  So I am hoping that some of those mental lapses came out of frustration by Clay and that an offense where TT looks for him more and the OC calls his number more will keep Clay more mentally engaged from play to play.  Not that frustration is an acceptable excuse, because you need to give 100% all the time, but at least if that was a factor its possible to reduce it with a higher usage rate.

 

Clay had a pretty good day overall.. but to your point he did have a bad drop q2 :57


Nice analysis by the OP. Appreciate the work. One minor point: on the last item listed, I believe TT deliberately threw that at Mills feet. The play was not there. Good decision actually.

 

Perhaps.. but it was an awfully quick bail on the play if he didn't like what he saw.



#52 JohnBonhamRocks

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:02 PM

 

agree on the Clay thing after taking a second look at sideline cam and seeing Zay Jones as primary read

 

also agree on the Matthews throw.

 

good points

 

Agreed that, although couldn't ID as Zay, it looked to me as if TT had primary read to his left before finding Clay. 

 

Again, thanks for the time and effort put into this. 



#53 Alphadawg7

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:05 PM

 

Clay had a pretty good day overall.. but to your point he did have a bad drop q2 :57


 

Perhaps.. but it was an awfully quick bail on the play if he didn't like what he saw.

 

yeah I would agree, and it was nice to see Clay be more involved too.  I think with Dennison, we will see a lot more Clay involvement, and TT has clearly stated he will be looking his way more after acknowledging in the past he missed too many open windows with him.  



#54 dneveu

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:07 PM

So you don't agree with some that Int should have been a routine catch for Clay?

 

I dunno - it didn't look that difficult to me.  The contact isn't important, because you'll see the ball already well behind him when he gets hit.  



#55 baskin

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:13 PM

These are great as usual. Thanks, again.
 
I think that gif of the goalline play to Clay again shows that he should have caught the ball, hits him in two hands, in addition to being a late throw and behind him. But he has to catch that. I would expect Nick O'Leary to catch that.
 
One thing that came to mind though as I read the post was that there probably was a good chance that TT waited so long because the play before the ball was batted down at the line. If you look close, the Jets DE is in his eyeline when waiting for Clay to get open. If he throws early as everyone wanted him to, including me, it could be batted down again. So he waits the extra beat, the DE is taken a little wider by Glenn, and then TT throws. That could be it in a nutshell, rather than he holds it way too long like he often does.
 
Still not a good pass and still needs to be caught anyway.



Or...he just waited too long to throw it because that it what he does all the time,,,,

#56 thunderingsquid

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:17 PM

Amazing breakdown.  Fantastic. 

 

Looks like a guard is on the list for April 2018. 

 

Miller's interviews really tell a lot, he's a very meek kind of person, very quiet and soft spoken.  Tells a lot IMHO.



#57 OldTimer1960

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:20 PM

I think you were a little hard on Miller, especially your first example. He had to go a long way to his left to get to the man he was blocking and he did do enough to slow that guy down especially given that Taylor was rolling out the other way.

On the second play that you call Miller out on, he is going against one of the best DL in the NFL - he was widely thought to be the best player in the 2016 draft.

Edited by OldTimer1960, 13 September 2017 - 01:27 PM.


#58 Tenhigh

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:22 PM

These are great as usual. Thanks, again.

 

I think that gif of the goalline play to Clay again shows that he should have caught the ball, hits him in two hands, in addition to being a late throw and behind him. But he has to catch that. I would expect Nick O'Leary to catch that.

 

One thing that came to mind though as I read the post was that there probably was a good chance that TT waited so long because the play before the ball was batted down at the line. If you look close, the Jets DE is in his eyeline when waiting for Clay to get open. If he throws early as everyone wanted him to, including me, it could be batted down again. So he waits the extra beat, the DE is taken a little wider by Glenn, and then TT throws. That could be it in a nutshell, rather than he holds it way too long like he often does.

 

Still not a good pass and still needs to be caught anyway.

Agreed.  If you look close, Clay wouldn't have even been open without a blatant push off...



#59 mannc

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:26 PM

 

I dunno - it didn't look that difficult to me.  The contact isn't important, because you'll see the ball already well behind him when he gets hit.  

Well, you guys are able to see things in the replays that I am not, apparently.  I have watched the replay repeatedly from both angles.  What I see is a pass that is late and a little behind Clay and Clay getting drilled as soon as the ball touches his hands.  I suppose it was catchable, but it would have been a great catch, IMO. I did not see the ball away by the time Clay was hit; you can't possibly see that in Bo's GIF, because it stops before the ball is away.  All that being said, no one seems to agree with me on this, so it's very possible that I'm just wrong. :cry:

 

By the way, it looks like it was Adams who delivered the hit.  That guy is a player.


Edited by mannc, 13 September 2017 - 01:29 PM.


#60 CamDMC

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:27 PM

Thank you for posting this every week!