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No more XX Bills fans (Title edited)


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#81 Fadingpain

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 02:50 PM

Your headline would have been more consistent with your intention had you placed a comma after the wording "BS".

 

As written, you make it look like the Bills Fans are the BS.

 

Lastly, I want to introduce you to the concepts of the sentence and the paragraph.

 

Try to keep it to one thought per sentence, and one theme or point per paragraph.

 

The reader needs a jackhammer, chisel, and blow torch to pound through your writing.

 

Now, what were you saying?  This team has sucked for a long time and fans are sick of it?

 

We all knew that before you wrote your post.

 

Have a good Saturday.



#82 KD in CA

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 02:52 PM

 

But the point is that is NOT imperative to pick in the top 5 to get a franchise QB.  And this next draft year is going to be as deep as we have seen in a long time at QB and highly possible we don't even need to make a trade to get our guy and we may not even use one of our first round picks on one to be honest.  

 

 

Imperative?  No.   

 

But let's not pretend it doesn't improve the odds considerably.  The Bills have whiffed badly on it's last four QB picks over a dozen years ranging from mid round 1 to round 4, showing it's a lot harder to pick a Dak Prescott or Drew Brees out of the crowd than fans with the benefit of hindsight like to think.

 

How many of the people criticizing the high draft pick strategy were the same dopes screaming their heads off for Tim Tebow or Johnny Manziel because 'all they do is win?'  :doh:



#83 SoTier

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 02:56 PM

So you just take any QB in the first round regardless if there's another player who is 10x better at his position.  Brilliant strategy.  They didn't draft a QB in the past few years because they had so many other positions of need and there just wasn't a first round talent available.  It has a lot to do with drafting in the middle of the first round all the time instead of at the beginning of it. 

 

Actually, it has to do with the Bills having revolving doors for DBs, RBs, and WRs because they've been unwilling to pay market value for those positions, so that they are continually using first and second round picks on those positions so they can fill the holes left by the players they trade away or lose in FA.  That why the Bills are always short on talent at several positions at once and why they never have depth and why they never have OLers and DLers being developed.

 

FTR, the Bills drafted a QB recently in 2013.  They drafted Manuel because they needed/wanted a QB in the first round not because Manuel was BPA.  They could have taken him in the second or third round, and if some other team had taken him, they could have taken Glennon instead who is at least serviceable.

 

It's not draft position but incompetence that's has insured the Bills have missed the playoffs for this entire century -- and are likely to continue to do so because they continue to do the same kinds of things they've been doing.



#84 145B4IDIE

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:12 PM

I thought OP wanted us to stop doing Bourbon Shots. heck no!



#85 ultimatebeing17

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:29 PM

I'm starting to actually dislike bills fans cause of this site. A fan that hopes for tanking is not a fan.

Half the fans want a full tank. lol


 

Imperative?  No.   

 

But let's not pretend it doesn't improve the odds considerably.  The Bills have whiffed badly on it's last four QB picks over a dozen years ranging from mid round 1 to round 4, showing it's a lot harder to pick a Dak Prescott or Drew Brees out of the crowd than fans with the benefit of hindsight like to think.

 

How many of the people criticizing the high draft pick strategy were the same dopes screaming their heads off for Tim Tebow or Johnny Manziel because 'all they do is win?'  :doh:

Amen. Somebody gets it, sick of the delusion 



#86 Seasons1992

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:30 PM

Your headline would have been more consistent with your intention had you placed a comma after the wording "BS".

 

As written, you make it look like the Bills Fans are the BS.

 

Lastly, I want to introduce you to the concepts of the sentence and the paragraph.

 

Try to keep it to one thought per sentence, and one theme or point per paragraph.

 

The reader needs a jackhammer, chisel, and blow torch to pound through your writing.

 

Now, what were you saying?  This team has sucked for a long time and fans are sick of it?

 

We all knew that before you wrote your post.

 

Have a good Saturday.

 

I wish this would fit in my Signature line.



#87 BarleyNY

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:55 PM

I thought OP wanted us to stop doing Bourbon Shots. heck no!


I thought he meant there are no more female Bills fans.

#88 CodeMonkey

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 04:28 PM

Trust the process

People have been trusting the process for the past 18 years.



#89 BobChalmers

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 05:07 PM

The only way to get a solid 1st rd Qb is to tank, cause else we will get somebody who is either a 'work in progress' or another e.j manuel. 

 

https://en.wikipedia...Football_League

 

No, not really, but it can help.  If my count is right, 7 of the 32 starters were #1 overall.  5 more were drafted 2-4.  2 were 11th, one 12th.

 

Here's a good list to consider: the following currently starting QB's were available when the Bills 1st round pick came up (IE, no tank needed).  Ones in bold have taken their teams to the playoffs, though they aren't all great QBs.  Five of them have won Super Bowls.

 

Tom Brady

Kirk Cousins

Russell Wilson

Derek Carr

Drew Brees

Josh McCown

Jay Cutler

Aaron Rogers* (Bills had traded their pick away)

Jacoby Brissett (not really the starter)

Dak Prescott

Trevor Simien

DeShaun Watson

DeShone Kizer

Andy Dalton

Mike Glennon

Joe Flacco

Tyrod Taylor


Edited by BobChalmers, 23 September 2017 - 05:17 PM.


#90 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 05:14 PM

I was too young to remember the last time the Bills were in the playoffs. It has been 17 years and frankly I'm fcking sick of it. When is enough enough! The defense I saw against Carolina was amazing. Can't we all just agree we are a QB away from the playoffs? We probably need a few better WR's and such, but we have been neglecting the most important position in all of football for over 17 years, it is crazy!!! Doug Whaley, Dick Jauron,  Rex Ryan, and countless other trash coaches/GM's have done nothing but prolong this embarrassment. If we had a 1st Rd Qb I can tell you we would be in the playoffs within 2 years and competing for the Lombardi trophy in five. What fcking idiot takes a WR or even a CB in the 1st rd when we dont even have an established QB. Sure, you can make the argument that having a great QB doesn't guarantee you playoffs as example by the Saints and Colts. But Drew Brees has a ring and Luck has brought them to two AFC Championships. Even if you discard that you can see that Sean Mcderrmott is not going to let the defense be soft as evident by his time in Carolina and his coaching here so far. I am sick of watching a s*it product on the field every Sunday, we need to let the Bills front office know we are not going to take this garbage team's product anymore. I one day want to see the 90's four superbowl losses become a distant memory, when we can hold the Lombardi trophy high over the streets of Buffalo.


Next year buddy.

#91 Sandy McFiddish

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:03 PM

Congrats, you can absorb another 17 without even feeling it.

 

I am in my 50s and can't claim that...

2 years away from 50 but I hear you, been absolute torture.


 

https://en.wikipedia...Football_League

 

No, not really, but it can help.  If my count is right, 7 of the 32 starters were #1 overall.  5 more were drafted 2-4.  2 were 11th, one 12th.

 

Here's a good list to consider: the following currently starting QB's were available when the Bills 1st round pick came up (IE, no tank needed).  Ones in bold have taken their teams to the playoffs, though they aren't all great QBs.  Five of them have won Super Bowls.

 

Tom Brady

Kirk Cousins

Russell Wilson

Derek Carr

Drew Brees

Josh McCown

Jay Cutler

Aaron Rogers* (Bills had traded their pick away)

Jacoby Brissett (not really the starter)

Dak Prescott

Trevor Simien

DeShaun Watson

DeShone Kizer

Andy Dalton

Mike Glennon

Joe Flacco

Tyrod Taylor

Aaron Rogers was the one we should have had. If we did not trade up for JP the year before, and let Bledsoe play another season, we would have had Aaron. But our O line at the time may have ruined him lol.



#92 SoTier

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:58 PM

2 years away from 50 but I hear you, been absolute torture.


Aaron Rogers was the one we should have had. If we did not trade up for JP the year before, and let Bledsoe play another season, we would have had Aaron. But our O line at the time may have ruined him lol.

 

Exactly this.  Unless you can get to the very best QB prospect in the draft and unless he's the undisputed #1 prospect of all, I think trading up is a losing proposition.  If the Bills had traded up to get Eli Manning, that might have been justified because he was the undisputed best QB prospect in that draft., but to trade up to  get the 4th best prospect?  Stupid move, and done totally to sell tickets since Losman was rated at about the same level as Matt Schaub plus the Bills still had Drew Bledsoe, so they really didn't have to have a QB in that draft.  Losman would likely have been available in the second or the third if they wanted him, but if he wasn't, no great loss.

 

The Bills fans whining about how bad trading up to get Watkins in 2015 was are simply clueless about what a really bad trade looks like.  The Bills had the 18th pick in the 2005 draft but it went to Dallas to get Losman while Rodgers, who was expected to go in the top 3 lasted until 24!    They could have also taken Cutler in 2006 who would have been a better choice than Losman, but the Bills weren't interested in another QB because they thought they had theirs.   When you figure the cost of trading up to take a bust, you not only have to factor in the lost picks but also the lost opportunities.  This is especially true of QBs since most of the time they're either good enough or busts with little salvageable value for the team that drafted them.



#93 Steve Billieve

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:34 PM

I've said for years draft 2 QB's every year until you find "The one"...If you want to win the lottery you have to buy more tickets.

 

I don't think that's how you win the lottery.



#94 BuffaloHokie13

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 06:38 AM

This is nonsense because it's based on false logic.  The success or failure of any draft class or any position within a draft class can only be judged by  success in the NFL of the players with the draft class or drafted position.  Who the hell cares if there's 6 QBs taken in the first round in 2018 if they all bust?  :doh:  A first round QB who is a bust isn't any kind of "value".  Moreover, for whatever reason, most likely because colleges aren't running pro-style offenses very much any more but possibly just mere coincidence, there's seems to be a growing trend in the last 5 years for serviceable or better QBs to come from outside of the first round.

 

Looking at all the QBs drafted in the first round between 2001 and 2014 (I wanted QBs to have a minimum of 3 years to prove themselves), I found there were 39. 

  • Of those, 3 are likely HOF candidates: Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger from 2004 and Aaron Rodgers from 2005.  Those guys are "top tier franchise QBs" IMO.  (< 8%)
  • There's another group of 6 or 7 first round QBs who I call "second tier" (I can't decide if Michael Vick should be in this group or in the next lower group).  They're all winners: Vick (2001), Palmer (2003), Rivers (2004), Ryan (2008), Stafford (2009), Newton (2011), Luck (2012).  Some of them will likely become HOFers, most likely Rivers, Ryan, and/or Stafford.  (17.9%)
  • I found another group of 6  QBs taken in the first round who weren't quite as good as the first two groups but who were certainly not busts, either.  These were Alex Smith (2003), Jay Cutler (2006), Joe Flacco (2008), Sam Bradford (2010), Ryan Tannehill (2012), and Teddy Bridgewater (2014).  I included Bridgewater because in his first two seasons, he was a very serviceable QB, and his future is in doubt because of an injury not because of how he played when healthy.  (15.4%)
  • The largest group, by far, was the first round QBs who busted. There were 23 of those. (59%). 11 of them were drafted in the bottom half of the first round.  5 busts came from the top three picks, including two  #1 picks (David Carr (2002 - #1 and JaMarcus Russell (2007 - #1)).  The remaining 7 were drafted between #5 and #12.
  • Prior to 2011, you could count on the fingers of 1 hand and have a digit or two to spare the number of successful QBs who were drafted outside the first round:  Drew Brees (2001 - 2nd); Matt Schaub (2004 - 3rd); Kyle Orton (2005 - 4th).  There was also UDFA Tony Romo.
  • Since then, there's been a virtual explosion of successful QBs coming from later rounds: Andy Dalton (2011 - 2nd), Russell Wilson (2012 -3rd), Kirk Cousins (2012 - 4th), Mike Glennon (2013 - 4th), and Derrick Carr (2014 - 2nd).

The biggest take away from these numbers is that drafting a first round QB guarantees nothing.  Carson Palmer, Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, and Andrew Luck are all perfect examples of how much at the mercy of competent support from FO and coaching even good/great QBs are: all of these QBs have suffered at times in their careers from poor FO support and coaching. 

 

Those who think that all the Bills need to do to start winning is to draft a first round QB in 2018 are likely in for a rude awakening.  It will take more than that.  Much more.

You say it's nonsense and then wind up agreeing with me? Okay. My entire point, which you clearly missed, was that there are about 8 QB prospects who could have 1st round grades by the time the draft rolls around. Thus some will be there outside the top 5 picks. When I say value I am talking about the draft and it's prospects, not what they become once they're drafted. Yes it is true that we won't know if they panned out for a few years, but the people drafting don't get that kind of hindsight.



#95 BuffaloFan68

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 07:52 AM

Mason Rudolph for QB 2018! It would be nice to bring his OC with him to call plays for us too.
Go Bills!!!!!

#96 JMF2006

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:53 AM

No more XX Bills fans (Title edited)

 

Women aren't going to cheer for the Bills anymore? ;)



#97 SoTier

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:29 AM

You say it's nonsense and then wind up agreeing with me? Okay. My entire point, which you clearly missed, was that there are about 8 QB prospects who could have 1st round grades by the time the draft rolls around. Thus some will be there outside the top 5 picks. When I say value I am talking about the draft and it's prospects, not what they become once they're drafted. Yes it is true that we won't know if they panned out for a few years, but the people drafting don't get that kind of hindsight.

 

My main argument with your post was your claim that QB prospects had "value", and in 2018, they looked to have "value" throughout the first round.  Generic draft picks have "value".  Players have "value".  Prospects don't except to draftniks since nobody knows if Prospect X is going to become a Pro Bowler or a bust, and it's what a prospect does after he becomes a player that's important.



#98 Limeaid

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 02:09 PM

Why can't we have a solid defense and offense? We are constantly flip flopping, starting to piss me off lol.

 

Some just look natural in yellow shorts.


 

How many of the people criticizing the high draft pick strategy were the same dopes screaming their heads off for Tim Tebow or Johnny Manziel because 'all they do is win?'  :doh:

 

Or John Skelton - there is an infamous poll on it and I never listen to those who voted they wanted him.