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Fire Rico Now; be done with it.


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#181 ShadyBillsFan

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:28 PM

 

I hope you're right but unfortunately I think more like Cookie.   Tyrod may get better as a passer but he'll never develop Brady/Brees type skills.  

 

But Tyrod can run.  And when we integrated him into the run game like we did last year, Shady was more effective and - more importantly - we scored points.  

 

When Lynn was calling plays and Tyrod was under center, we averaged something like 26 points per game last season.  If we averaged 26 points per game with this defense, we'd win enough games to get into the playoffs.  

May be someone just doesn't fit the system.  



#182 Wayne Arnold

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:00 PM

 

I'm still having trouble with this "long term benefit" thingy, beyond the fact that Dennison's abilities as an OC are questionable. 

 

If your plan goes as planned...

 

-the QB of the future isn't on the team;

-the way things are going, Cordy Glenn is probably gone;

-Incognito may or may not be here, either due to retirement or "not fitting the scheme"

-Vlad and Mills have no business being here;

-the receiving corps, with the exception of Zay Jones and possibly Matthews..are gone.

-I'm pretty sure Shady can pick up on a different system...if they don't trade him.

 

So the long term benefit is for ...4 or 5 guys? 

 

If its to see "what Tyrod's got"...they already know that..or should know that.

 

If its to tank for draft position...well, I'm not big on tanking, but that's just me. 

 

What I see..especially the way the AFCE is shaping up...is wasting a really good opportunity at finally breaking the playoff drought.

 

I just don't see this "long term benefit" as a given, or even a good probability.  There's no long term benefit if most of the starters are going to be gone anyway.

 

The way the AFC East is shaping up is the way it always shapes up: the Patriots will win the division by three or four games (at least). 

 

Sqeaking into the playoffs with no real hope of winning the Super Bowl (like the Dolphins in 2017) isn't my idea of a golden opportunity, but to each their own.

 

This season is really all about Tyrod while at the same time laying a foundation (on defense, especially) to become a true contender in this league. Not just a team that could luck into 9 or 10 wins (despite a horrible offense) solely by winning the turnover battle enough times. 

 

I'll repost the following from another thread...

 

The bottom line: if Taylor cannot develop into a capable pocket passer in this league, then is he worth the extra $10 million cap hit to keep around in 2018? That's what the franchise needs to figure out. If it takes sacrificing some of the offense in 2017 to make that determination then so be it.

 

post-17182-0-58601700-1507832151.jpg


 

I hope you're right but unfortunately I think more like Cookie.   Tyrod may get better as a passer but he'll never develop Brady/Brees type skills.  

 

But Tyrod can run.  And when we integrated him into the run game like we did last year, Shady was more effective and - more importantly - we scored points.  

 

When Lynn was calling plays and Tyrod was under center, we averaged something like 26 points per game last season.  If we averaged 26 points per game with this defense, we'd win enough games to get into the playoffs.  

 

I want a Super Bowl contender. Not a 9-10 win one-and-done playoff pretender. Fortunately, all evidence indicates that's what McDermott and Beane want as well.



#183 GoBills808

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:09 PM

 

The way the AFC East is shaping up is the way it always shapes up: the Patriots will win the division by three or four games (at least). 

 

Sqeaking into the playoffs with no real hope of winning the Super Bowl (like the Dolphins in 2017) isn't my idea of a golden opportunity, but to each their own.

 

This season is really all about Tyrod while at the same time laying a foundation (on defense, especially) to become a true contender in this league. Not just a team that could luck into 9 or 10 wins (despite a horrible offense) solely by winning the turnover battle enough times. 

 

I'll repost the following from another thread...

 

The bottom line: if Taylor cannot develop into a capable pocket passer in this league, then is he worth the extra $10 million cap hit to keep around in 2018? That's what the franchise needs to figure out. If it takes sacrificing some of the offense in 2017 to make that determination then so be it.

 

post-17182-0-58601700-1507832151.jpg


 

I want a Super Bowl contender. Not a 9-10 win one-and-done playoff pretender. Fortunately, all evidence indicates that's what McDermott and Beane want as well.

I agree completely....I do however understand the competing desire to make the playoffs THIS YEAR and theoretically build upon that accomplishment going forward, I just happen to believe that THAT scenario is a much shorter-term, and riskier in respect to eventually building a year-in year-out contender and winning a Super Bowl, than what McD+Beane are attempting to do now. I applaud them for it. 



#184 Bills Fan of Maryland

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:20 PM

Agreed - scheme is as much to blame as lack of talent. Both apply.



#185 SoCal Deek

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:35 PM

You can fire Dennison if you want but unless the new Guy is going to be able to yell really loud:  "HEY TYROD, THROW THE DARN BALL!" it's probably not going to make any difference.



#186 BmarvB

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:56 PM

He's the Rex Ryan of the offense



#187 bobobonators

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:46 PM

 

The way the AFC East is shaping up is the way it always shapes up: the Patriots will win the division by three or four games (at least). 

 

Sqeaking into the playoffs with no real hope of winning the Super Bowl (like the Dolphins in 2017) isn't my idea of a golden opportunity, but to each their own.

 

This season is really all about Tyrod while at the same time laying a foundation (on defense, especially) to become a true contender in this league. Not just a team that could luck into 9 or 10 wins (despite a horrible offense) solely by winning the turnover battle enough times. 

 

I'll repost the following from another thread...

 

The bottom line: if Taylor cannot develop into a capable pocket passer in this league, then is he worth the extra $10 million cap hit to keep around in 2018? That's what the franchise needs to figure out. If it takes sacrificing some of the offense in 2017 to make that determination then so be it.

 

post-17182-0-58601700-1507832151.jpg


 

I want a Super Bowl contender. Not a 9-10 win one-and-done playoff pretender. Fortunately, all evidence indicates that's what McDermott and Beane want as well.

 

 

You can discuss Tyrod all you want; however, you continue to avoid the spirit of this thread and its fundamental point:

 

1. For over a decade, Dennison has been tied to the hip with Kubiak.  Dennison is almost 60yrs old and has never been an NFL offensive coordinator in the last + decade without the support of Kubiak as HC.

 

2. Kubiak is regarded as the "offensive mind" in NFL circles; not Dennison.

 

3. Playcalling was so poor at times in Denver that Kubiak would have to take over the play calling in the second half b/c the offense was ineffective. We don't have that here. McD is a defensive mind. Dennison no longer has the Kubiak crutch to help him execute the scheme. So far the results are speaking for themselves when we see gameplans that lack imagination on gameday; an o-line that has no clue what the heck it's doing; and a top 5 RB in the NFL having a career-worst season so far through 1/3 of the season.

 

4. The run offense, compared to the last 2+years, is an abomination. Going into the season, McD said he's going to run Shady into the ground. Obviously McD wants to run the ball. This offense is made to run the ball. We've run the ball up and down the field the last 2+ seasons. McD is relying on Dennison to implement the run game; but Dennison's run block scheme has not worked with this personnel. That's a fundamental problem that can't just be glossed over; but on this board it is.

 

5. Tyrod aside, is Dennison the o-coordinator that will groom our future QB? What QB has Dennison ever developed? Dennison, at 60, hasn't even been able to make a name for himself in this league without Kubiak. Somehow, we're supposed to believe that he'll become even more innovative as he approaches his mid-60's?

 

Dennison is a problem; he has proven nothing in this league on his own. He's having trouble taking something that has clearly worked (the run game) and expanding on it, or at the very least, keeping it as a functioning component of the offense; instead, he's destroyed it.

 

Unlike with Kubiak in the past, McD can't save Dennison - he's on his own now.


Edited by bobobonators, 12 October 2017 - 05:53 PM.


#188 OldTimeAFLGuy

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:54 PM

 

 

You can discuss Tyrod all you want; however, you continue to avoid the spirit of this thread and its fundamental point:

 

1. Dennison has NEVER been an OC without being tied to the hip with Kubiak. Think about that for a second. Dennison is almost 60yrs old and has never been an NFL offensive coordinator in the last + decade without the support of Kubiak as HC.

 

2. Kubiak is regarded as the "offensive mind" in NFL circles; not Dennison.

 

3. Playcalling was so poor at times in Denver that Kubiak would have to take over the play calling in the second half b/c the offense was ineffective. We don't have that here. McD is a defensive mind. Dennison no longer has the Kubiak crutch to help him execute the scheme. So far the results are speaking for themselves when we see gameplans that lack imagination on gameday; an o-line that has no clue what the heck it's doing; and a top 5 RB in the NFL having a career-worst season so far through 1/3 of the season.

 

4. The run offense, compared to the last 2+years, is an abomination. Going into the season, McD said he's going to run Shady into the ground. Obviously McD wants to run the ball. This offense is made to run the ball. We've run the ball up and down the field the last 2+ seasons. McD is relying on Dennison to implement the run game; but Dennison's run block scheme has not worked with this personnel. That's a fundamental problem that can't just be glossed over; but on this board it is.

 

5. Tyrod aside, is Dennison the o-coordinator that will groom our future QB? What QB has Dennison ever developed? Dennison, at 60, hasn't even been able to make a name for himself in this league without Kubiak. Somehow, we're supposed to believe that he'll become even more innovative as he approaches his mid-60's?

 

Dennison is a problem; he has proven nothing in this league on his own. He's having trouble taking something that has clearly worked (the run game) and expanding on it, or at the very least, keeping it as a functioning component of the offense; instead, he's destroyed it.

 

Unlike with Kubiak in the past, McD can't save Dennison - he's on his own now.

 

...a valued assessment and opinion IMO...let me ask you this.....Marrone's resume' said he was the "former OC of the New Orleans Saints"....do we have an analogous situation here whereby we have an OC whose HC actually called the plays as is the likelihood of Payton doing the same in NO?....are their vaunted OC credentials overstated because their HC's called the offense and they were collective clipboard carriers?...just curious...........



#189 bobobonators

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:03 PM

 

...a valued assessment and opinion IMO...let me ask you this.....Marrone's resume' said he was the "former OC of the New Orleans Saints"....do we have an analogous situation here whereby we have an OC whose HC actually called the plays as is the likelihood of Payton doing the same in NO?....are their vaunted OC credentials overstated because their HC's called the offense and they were collective clipboard carriers?...just curious...........

 

I'm not sure if its fair to say Dennison is a clipboard carrier; he certainly has experience, but it's one thing to be 1a, and it's a whole other animal to be 1 - the guy.  Dennison was linked to Shanahan with the redskins; shanahan was the offensive mind there and the one that ran that offense. Then Dennison went on to become the O-coordinator with Kubiak. Kubiak was the offensive mind with the Texans and the Broncos, not Dennison. Dennison has always had an offensive minded coach who was running the show and he was the man behind them.

 

In Buffalo, Dennison is supposed to be the offensive guru. He's the man. The buck stops with him when it comes to the offense. McD can't offer much input or take over. Dennison has never really had to handle that before. But here we are now.



#190 OldTimeAFLGuy

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:20 PM

 

I'm not sure if its fair to say Dennison is a clipboard carrier; he certainly has experience, but it's one thing to be 1a, and it's a whole other animal to be 1 - the guy.  Dennison was linked to Shanahan with the redskins; shanahan was the offensive mind there and the one that ran that offense. Then Dennison went on to become the O-coordinator with Kubiak. Kubiak was the offensive mind with the Texans and the Broncos, not Dennison. Dennison has always had an offensive minded coach who was running the show and he was the man behind them.

 

In Buffalo, Dennison is supposed to be the offensive guru. He's the man. The buck stops with him when it comes to the offense. McD can't offer much input or take over. Dennison has never really had to handle that before. But here we are now.

 

 

..I'm going to back off a bit only to keep this good dialogue between us going....real football stuff.....I'm thinking a coaching staff combined agrees on an overall philosophy in all three phases of the game and then hopefully finds the personnel to fit which is failed utopian thinking.....you'll NEVER find all of the PERFECT pieces to fit your plan....hence you need to be flexible and show the ability to adjust your plan/scheme to what you have to work with...kudos to Schwartz for doing it with the D IMO....not matter how hard Dennison tries, Taylor will never be a pocket passer, yet Rico is hell bent on the "round peg in a square hole" philosophy which at the same time negates probably the ONE attribute that has kept TT in the NFL, namely his wheels/mobility.......so if he does NOT fit your long term "system" or plan, why sacrifice W's today to prove a point and negate the attribute that still has him employed in the NFL, namely "wheels/mobility"?.....maybe the plan is to build for the long term but when you have an attribute available to you now that you probably don't want in the future, why not exploit the hell out of it today and rack up some "W's"?.....I must have missed the memo............


Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy, 12 October 2017 - 06:21 PM.


#191 Wayne Arnold

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:22 PM

 

 

You can discuss Tyrod all you want; however, you continue to avoid the spirit of this thread and its fundamental point:

 

1. For over a decade, Dennison has been tied to the hip with Kubiak.  Dennison is almost 60yrs old and has never been an NFL offensive coordinator in the last + decade without the support of Kubiak as HC.

 

2. Kubiak is regarded as the "offensive mind" in NFL circles; not Dennison.

 

3. Playcalling was so poor at times in Denver that Kubiak would have to take over the play calling in the second half b/c the offense was ineffective. We don't have that here. McD is a defensive mind. Dennison no longer has the Kubiak crutch to help him execute the scheme. So far the results are speaking for themselves when we see gameplans that lack imagination on gameday; an o-line that has no clue what the heck it's doing; and a top 5 RB in the NFL having a career-worst season so far through 1/3 of the season.

 

4. The run offense, compared to the last 2+years, is an abomination. Going into the season, McD said he's going to run Shady into the ground. Obviously McD wants to run the ball. This offense is made to run the ball. We've run the ball up and down the field the last 2+ seasons. McD is relying on Dennison to implement the run game; but Dennison's run block scheme has not worked with this personnel. That's a fundamental problem that can't just be glossed over; but on this board it is.

 

5. Tyrod aside, is Dennison the o-coordinator that will groom our future QB? What QB has Dennison ever developed? Dennison, at 60, hasn't even been able to make a name for himself in this league without Kubiak. Somehow, we're supposed to believe that he'll become even more innovative as he approaches his mid-60's?

 

Dennison is a problem; he has proven nothing in this league on his own. He's having trouble taking something that has clearly worked (the run game) and expanding on it, or at the very least, keeping it as a functioning component of the offense; instead, he's destroyed it.

 

Unlike with Kubiak in the past, McD can't save Dennison - he's on his own now.

 

What do you want me to say? There's nothing to convince you that Dennison knows what he's doing because you'll just come back with "He's always been with Kubiak."

 

You don't stick around in this league for as long as Dennison has without knowing what you're doing. "But Kubiak." Alrighty then.

 

The adjustments Dennison has made so far has been impressive. He's doing what he can to adjust his playbook around what Taylor does well with regard to throwing the football. He's basically eliminated three-step drops, calling for more rollouts, more shotgun, etc.

 

The execution has sucked. That's just a fact. Watch the tape. The Oline has strugged with the new blocking scheme. Maybe that's on Castillo. 

 

If you want to blame someone for Taylor not using the read-option or having to become a pocket passer, blame McDermott. Blame Beane. Dennison has his hands tied.



#192 bobobonators

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:59 PM

 
What do you want me to say? There's nothing to convince you that Dennison knows what he's doing because you'll just come back with "He's always been with Kubiak."
 
You don't stick around in this league for as long as Dennison has without knowing what you're doing. "But Kubiak." Alrighty then.
 
The adjustments Dennison has made so far has been impressive. He's doing what he can to adjust his playbook around what Taylor does well with regard to throwing the football. He's basically eliminated three-step drops, calling for more rollouts, more shotgun, etc.
 
The execution has sucked. That's just a fact. Watch the tape. The Oline has strugged with the new blocking scheme. Maybe that's on Castillo. 
 
If you want to blame someone for Taylor not using the read-option or having to become a pocket passer, blame McDermott. Blame Beane. Dennison has his hands tied.


Wayne, i may very well be wrong. It remains a major red flag to me though. And on a fundamental level, its a pretty easy red flag to spot.

And many coaches hang around forever in the NFL. Mularkey is still a HC lol.

Why hasnt Dennison ever been a HC once? Probably bc teams know hes not the brains behind the schemes.
I just dont see Dennison as the short term or long term answer to anything on offense. Id cut the cord upon realizing that instead of hanging on for the sake of hanging on.

#193 bobobonators

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:36 PM

Rick Dennison

The basic gist of the offense Rick Dennison will run in Buffalo was summed up perfectly by Broncos receiver Demaryius Thomas.
If you get the running going, then you get the big plays, the five-time 1,000-yard receiver told CBS Sports.

That, in a nutshell, is the Gary Kubiak version of the West Coast offense. And its not a surprise at all that Dennison will bring that offense to Buffalo since hes been Kubiaks wingman since the 1990s.
Dennison, however, rarely called plays for the Broncos/Texans/Ravens/Broncos. His job was to help collaborate on a game plan, not execute it. And the game plan has typically involved establishing the run.



https://www.cbssport...-teams-in-2017/


I rest my case here.


Edited by bobobonators, 12 October 2017 - 07:37 PM.


#194 BUFFALOBART

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:43 PM

miami just fired their O-line coach.. worth a look? or take a powder on him? 

1/4 Lb. of pink rock as a signing bonus



#195 billsfan11

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:48 PM

Rick Dennison

The basic gist of the offense Rick Dennison will run in Buffalo was summed up perfectly by Broncos receiver Demaryius Thomas.
If you get the running going, then you get the big plays, the five-time 1,000-yard receiver told CBS Sports.

That, in a nutshell, is the Gary Kubiak version of the West Coast offense. And its not a surprise at all that Dennison will bring that offense to Buffalo since hes been Kubiaks wingman since the 1990s.
Dennison, however, rarely called plays for the Broncos/Texans/Ravens/Broncos. His job was to help collaborate on a game plan, not execute it. And the game plan has typically involved establishing the run.



https://www.cbssport...-teams-in-2017/


I rest my case here.

Ya I 100 percent have agreed with all your posts on Dennison.

 

I am not sure why some people have defended this guy.

 

He has been awful the first 5 games and his past isn't good as well



#196 Augie

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:52 PM

Ya I 100 percent have agreed with all your posts on Dennison.
 
I am not sure why some people have defended this guy.
 
He has been awful the first 5 games and his past isn't good as well


Hopefully we can get someone higher on the wish list before next season. I'm not a fan of a knee jerk reaction after 5 disappointing games, though.

#197 billsfan11

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:54 PM

Hopefully we can get someone higher on the wish list before next season. I'm not a fan of a knee jerk reaction after 5 disappointing games, though.

Fair enough. It just has been very ugly to watch. Even worse than Nate Hackett and that is saying something...



#198 3rdand12

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:54 PM

Fair enough. It just has been very ugly to watch. Even worse than Nate Hackett and that is saying something...

i feel your opinion.

 But i strongly disagree.
Hackett and Marrone were unique, and often inflexible in game planning . Being both fresh from the college games.

 The Marrone hire was more about turning around the culture then it was his skill sets come game day.

 Dennison . right or wrong? has a world of experiences and success regardless of his responsibilities perceived here.

 

Little Nate ( love the fellow) was Coaching Pop Warner before Syracuse. It was his Pops history that got im recognition.

He surely has grown. But at the time Buffalo and Russ brandon hired them ( syracuse fan base)

 He had nothing in the NFL exp check box



#199 billsfan11

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:10 PM

i feel your opinion.

 But i strongly disagree.
Hackett and Marrone were unique, and often inflexible in game planning . Being both fresh from the college games.

 The Marrone hire was more about turning around the culture then it was his skill sets come game day.

 Dennison . right or wrong? has a world of experiences and success regardless of his responsibilities perceived here.

 

Little Nate ( love the fellow) was Coaching Pop Warner before Syracuse. It was his Pops history that got im recognition.

He surely has grown. But at the time Buffalo and Russ brandon hired them ( syracuse fan base)

 He had nothing in the NFL exp check box

Ya I know, fair points man.

 

Just so far I am saying it has been worse than Hackett, not saying it is going to continue that way as Hackett was pretty awful. 

 

Yes Dennison has experience, but that necessarily isn't a good thing. I am very concerned his offensive style is too old school and out dated.

 

I guess time will only tell. Just not impressed at all from his schemes/ play calling so far



#200 3rdand12

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:19 PM

Ya I know, fair points man.

 

Just so far I am saying it has been worse than Hackett, not saying it is going to continue that way as Hackett was pretty awful. 

 

Yes Dennison has experience, but that necessarily isn't a good thing. I am very concerned his offensive style is too old school and out dated.

 

I guess time will only tell. Just not impressed at all from his schemes/ play calling so far

You and me both are not feeling this Offense right now.
Still early I guess.
 

 I think i too often miss what we lost.

Big fan of Anthony Lynn. Right or wrong. and no knock against McBeanes .

 and yes i did like what Roman did his first year here. needed tweaking . Maybe thats what Dennison needs to keep doing.

 Cover 1 shows the scheme changes from outside zone statistically up to the Bengals. So maybe they are trying ?